The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VII

[W.D.Clinger]

Actually, Tammes getting through on his walkie talkie wasn't part of the plan. Europa heard him by pure accident, had to turn it up to maximum to even hear him. Probably not even Tammes' first attempt to get through.

Which explains why you listed it as a bullet point supporting your claimed "clear military precision"?

A sinking with clear military precision:

• [....]
• Third Captain having to use a hand held device to call MAYDAY (where was the Captain?), thanks to communications being down
• [....]
• Tammes' last MAYDAY 01:22 EET
• [....]

A few hours ago, I quoted the genuinely precise military plan devised by the Goon Show and leaked by opponents of the Marianas Deep State, but I was scooped by @Vixen, the operative chosen to reveal that plan's details to the International Subversive Forum (ISF). Out of respect for the ultra-precise military team that implemented the plan, I did not quote from the transcript of what those formidable men o'war had to say about the plan when first they heard its militarily precise details. I have since been informed that protecting fictional characters is not a matter of utmost international security, so I can quote some of what they said.

ULTRA-PRECISE MILITARY PLANNER:

• At precisely 12:59, we're gonna take down all communications. At precisely 01:54, we're gonna restore those communications.
• We're gonna get the ship's officers to time its progress so the ship is just entering international waters when we take down the communications.
• We're gonna force the Swedes to say 01:00 in the local time zone corresponds to Swedish midnight.

FORMIDABLE MAN O'WAR #1:

Why does this have to happen precisely at midnight, and precisely when the ship crosses into international waters?​

ULTRA-PRECISE MILITARY PLANNER:

We must be precise so the world will know our attack was carried out with military precision. We don't want anyone to think the sinking could be an accident.​

FORMIDABLE MAN O'WAR #2:

Couldn't we just issue a press release taking credit for the sinking?​

ULTRA-PRECISE MILITARY PLANNER:

No. This operation is MK Ultra over-the-top secret. Don't forget to take your prescribed psychedelics.​

[....]

ULTRA-PRECISE MILITARY PLANNER:

• We're gonna get a truck driver to tell the Swedish coastguards that something went wrong.

FORMIDABLE MAN O'WAR #1:

Why not use someone who's already on our payroll, such as Agent 86?​

ULTRA-PRECISE MILITARY PLANNER:

The role calls for extreme bravery and competence.​

[....]

ULTRA-PRECISE MILITARY PLANNER:

• We're gonna make sure it takes exactly 35 MINUTES for the ship to sink after its bow visor comes loose.

FORMIDABLE MAN O'WAR #2:

Why does it have to take exactly 35 minutes? Why not 34 or 36? Wouldn't 35" be even more impressive?​

ULTRA-PRECISE MILITARY PLANNER:

The exactness of the 35 emphasizes our military precision. But I like your 35" suggestion. We can pass that on to our disinformation agents.​

[....]

ULTRA-PRECISE MILITARY PLANNER:

• We're gonna have Dick Cheney get US firm Rockwater to search Piht's room for a briefcase that belongs to an arms dealer and presumably contains software disguised as submarine aerospace munitions.

FORMIDABLE MAN O'WAR #2:

Or you could have a track-laying submarine fly in and push a truck full of cesium out through the bow ramp. ​

ULTRA-PRECISE MILITARY PLANNER:

Excellent suggestion! I'll add that to the plan.​

​

 

[zooterkin]

It was a box-shaped thing. Nobody recognised it as any kind of device, including Braidwood.

Not to mention that if it were explosives, it was a red herring since it had patently failed to explode.

 

[Mojo]

I am not given to deception.

Oh, and the document that you cited as "press release 1994" turns out to be titled "Second Interim Report of the Joint Accident Investigation Commission", dated 17th October 1994, and turned out not to support the claim you tried to use it to support. It would make your references much easier to check if you could manage to cite them properly.

 

[Mojo]

Not to mention that if it were explosives, it was a red herring since it had patently failed to explode.

But on Blue Peter they always had extra ones they had made earlier.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Not to mention that if it were explosives, it was a red herring since it had patently failed to explode.

How can you be sure? Have you analysed it? Eh?

 

[The Common Potato]

my mum left me and dad before I was born

Are we playing 'who's the best northerner'?

 

[The Common Potato]

My mother's final birthday was 28th September 1994 - she died on new years eve that year - that's how I remember the date of the flying submarine sinking.

 

[The Common Potato]

But on Blue Peter they always had extra ones they had made earlier.

The Spoonerism Woke Police would have a field day with sticky back plastic.

 

[Vixen]

You wouldn't recognize one if it slapped you upside the head with a dead fish.

May I say I find your imagery of violence towards myself repugnant.

 

[Vixen]

The voices in someone's head?

Poor show.

 

[Andy_Ross]

May I say I find your imagery of violence towards myself repugnant.

 

[Vixen]

Cite? The accuracy of your recall in this thread is practically non-existent as is your understanding of marine rescue equipment, or any marine equipment for that matter.

I, as a qualified General Hand and cox-in-training, in a very modern and well equipped national volunteer coastguard have never been trained on sonar for surface rescues (except to prevent running my vessel aground accidentally or hitting a submerged obstacle (there’s a hint for you)).

So am quite interested in what sonar system you think was being used by the Turku coastguard during these rescue operations.

See my post here: #720

• Jan 19, 2022

• 
  
• Add bookmark
• #720

You know, because you have referred to it yourself, that we have a transcript of the ships' radio telecommunications on the night.

Now what's this stuff about sonar?

MRCC Turku in the police witness statements says they could not capture Estonia's image n the sonar except very vaguely once in a left hand corner (which could have been anything).

Mariella and Europa both said they could not see Estonia on their radar or had trouble doing so.

There is a transcript and that transcript tells a sorry story of desperate communication problems with the young officers papping their pants and begging to know whether help was coming.

Both Mariella and Europa had to use their own NMT handheld mobile phones to ring up MRCC Turku on its land line.

You know better of course.

 

[Vixen]

He recognised tas a rectangular object

As an explosives expert he was trained to recognise explosive devices. Braidwood did say it could have been inadvertently left behind by one of the earlier Navy divers. These are defence forces. Of course they understand how to set up, use and defuse such devices.

 

[Andy_Ross]

As an explosives expert he was trained to recognise explosive devices. Braidwood did say it could have been inadvertently left behind by one of the earlier Navy divers. These are defence forces. Of course they understand how to set up, use and defuse such devices.

It's a little rectangular object.
How does it look like an explosive device?
By that standard the cake I got from my friend Jill the baker yesterday looks like an explosive device in it's little card box.

Which one is it?

 

[Vixen]

I mean other photos of the alleged bomb type so we can also recognize it as a bomb.

The drawing I mentioned was his drawing of the hole, which bears no resemblance to the actual hole. He drew it in a way that supported his desire to claim it was caused by a bomb.

That was a separate issue Braidwood presented. He drew it as he saw it.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

See my post here: #720

The one where you wrote sonar and meant radar? Yes. We were just talking about that.

I thought you had grasped when you said "soz, I meant radar" there was a difference and that sonar uses sound and works below water over comparatively short distances where radar uses radio and works above the water over long distances. But here we are again, recycling the greatest hits. Do you have anything new to add?

 

[Jack by the hedge]

As an explosives expert he was trained to recognise explosive devices.

... or in this case potential explosive devices, in a box. If he had been an expert in antique Dresden figurines he might have recognised it as a potential porcelain figurine in a box. Etc.

 

[Vixen]

And what plan was that? You're implying you have knowledge of a plan. Is it documented? Can you name the organization? Someone involved? What is the source for this plan?

I ask because it's been 31 years and nothing has leaked (except the MS Estonia's car deck). Where is the deathbed confession(s)? Where are those disgruntled ex-intelligence or special operations guys who came forward to tell the tale? What about Wikileaks, how have they missed this act of mass murder?

The bridge crew didn't know the ship was in trouble until it was too late. Had they known the visor was gone in a timely fashion they would have done EVERYTHING different.

Unless you can produce deals of this plan, please stop posting bovine scatology.

We were discussing 'military precision'. That is, planning something in advance. Communications were down. As you can see in the above post, even the captains of Silja Europa and Viking Mariela had to use hand phones to communicate with the coastguard on their landline. Normally, the task of calling MAYDAY is that of the captain. Instead we had the Third Officer hanging at an angle of 20° - 30° desperately trying to get though on a walkie talkie, only ever designed for highly localised communication.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

All of this has been endlessly debunked. Have you anything new to discuss?

 

[Vixen]

... or in this case potential explosive devices, in a box. If he had been an expert in antique Dresden figurines he might have recognised it as a potential porcelain figurine in a box. Etc.

Obviously, it is only in his expert opinion.