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Merged why the release of names associated with Epstein mean little to absolutely nothing.

dirtywick said:
because then this whole thing would have been more than the pointless semantic derail it turns out it was. oh well.
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Oh noes! I'm not interested in chasing your off-topic Trump criticisms! Whatever shall we do? There aren't enough threads on those topics already, we need to hijack another one!
 
Ziggurat said:
Oh noes! I'm not interested in chasing your off-topic Trump criticisms! Whatever shall we do? There aren't enough threads on those topics already, we need to hijack another one!
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oh you fooled me again then. because you seem pretty interested. in fact i don’t think you had anything to say about epstein at all until trump was brought up and now you can’t stop talking about trump

in any case, just for my own sake here, your claim seems to be that since trump has never gotten away with a crime, if he was in the epstein files for crimes he would have been prosecuted. because that didn’t happen, you don’t believe he did anything criminal and this is just a hoax.

since none of the examples anyone brought forth counted for semantic reasons, i don’t have anything to add beyond saying you’re being ridiculous.
 
dirtywick said:
in any case, just for my own sake here, your claim seems to be that since trump has never gotten away with a crime
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No, that wasn't my claim. This isn't semantics, this is you making straw men and then complaining that it's semantics when I don't play along with your straw men.
 
Venom said:
Let's back up a bit. For one you claimed "hundreds of victims" dispute what I said. The conspiracy theory that Epstein was a pimp for the pedophile elite doesn't come from hundreds of victims. It came from Virginia Roberts and her lawyers [2009 lawsuit][2014 motion]. If you're thinking of Sarah Ransome's fairy tales or the allegations of crypto-Nazi Maria Farmer, they came much later and I believe were influenced by Roberts.

In that proffer interview DAG Blanche conducted with Ghislaine Maxwell in July, Maxwell pointed out that none of the 44 women interviewed in Epstein's Palm Beach case even mentioned her name, which is true (p. 120, 121). They didn't mention any prominent people participating in any crimes. They mostly implicated Epstein and his personal assistants and young women he hired as recruiters.

So if an account of sexual abuse wildly deviates from these dozens of well-corroborated accounts, would you disagree if I say it should be treated with extra scrutiny? To make matters worse, Virginia Roberts has a less than stellar record of telling the truth [Beecher dossier]. I know nobody's allowed to point that out, but she's the central accuser in this supposed conspiracy. And if this story is going to be the number one issue in America today, we ought to know every prominent character's role in it.

Supplemental stuff:

Depositions of Roberts [Jan 2016][May 2016][Nov 2016],
Draft of her original memoir [The Billionaire's Playboy Club],
Articles by Sharon Churcher [articles]
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Cool.
 
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wareyin said:
Yeah, Zig wasn't claiming Trump has never gotten away with a crime, he was claiming that Trump has been fully prosecuted for every crime he ever committed. Those are totally and clearly different things. /s
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No, that's not what I claimed either. You guys really are bad at this.
 
Ziggurat said:
No, that's not what I claimed either. You guys really are bad at this.
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Help us out, then. If you weren't arguing against the claim that Trump has committed crimes for which he has not been prosecuted, then what were you arguing?
Or was it simply that you had merely forgotten all of the ones you already knew about and were asking for a reminder?
 
plague311 said:
What's yours?
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Just wondering how the 2019 indictment contradicts what I said. Epstein died so the case got closed and they never proved anything though I'm certain some stuff they alleged was true, 'cause it's just a rehash of his allegations in Florida. Pretty mundane compared to the wild, unrelenting speculation in the press and conspiracy circles.
 
Surprising take from the New York Times

The Epstein Story? Count Me Out.​

Why is Epstein the top issue in American life right now? Well, in an age in which more and more people get their news from short videos, if you’re in politics, the media or online, it pays to focus on topics that are salacious, are easy to understand and allow you to offer self-confident opinions with no actual knowledge.

But the most important reason the Epstein story tops our national agenda is that the QAnon mentality has taken over America. The QAnon mentality is based on the assumption that the American elite is totally evil and that American institutions are totally corrupt. If there is a pizzeria on Connecticut Avenue in Northwest, D.C., it must be because Hillary Clinton is running a child abuse sex ring in the basement.
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wareyin said:
Well, comparing a completely baseless conspiracy theory about a child abuse sex ring in the basement of a basementless pizza place to the already proven in court actions of a guy who ran a sex trafficking ring is....something.
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To the extent that anything was proven, it didn't prove QAnon beliefs, but that's how the case has been marketed regardless, even by some of the accusers and lawyers. That's the problem.
 
Venom said:
To the extent that anything was proven, it didn't prove QAnon beliefs, but that's how the case has been marketed regardless, even by some of the accusers and lawyers. That's the problem.
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And I think the problem is more that we have a proven sex traffic ring that you and that author are trying to pooh-pooh away by comparing it to a conspiracy theory that relied on non-existent basements and chemical compounds. After you also implied that the real predators in the Epstein child cases were the Palm Beach high school girls who forced Epstein and others into not just accepting but also paying for "sexualized massages."
 
wareyin said:
And I think the problem is more that we have a proven sex traffic ring that you and that author are trying to pooh-pooh away by comparing it to a conspiracy theory that relied on non-existent basements and chemical compounds. After you also implied that the real predators in the Epstein child cases were the Palm Beach high school girls who forced Epstein and others into not just accepting but also paying for "sexualized massages."
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Damn those high school girls! How is a grown ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ man supposed to get anything done with them just constantly offering massages that Epstein paid several hundred dollars for....and had them be half naked to give?
 
wareyin said:
And I think the problem is more that we have a proven sex traffic ring that you and that author are trying to pooh-pooh away by comparing it to a conspiracy theory that relied on non-existent basements and chemical compounds. After you also implied that the real predators in the Epstein child cases were the Palm Beach high school girls who forced Epstein and others into not just accepting but also paying for "sexualized massages."
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Way to totally misrepresent what I said! Geezus.

The reason I pointed out that the Palm Beach high schoolers lied about their age and some had fake IDs is because we need to be clear they made a voluntary choice to go to his house, encouraged by none other than Virginia Roberts and Haley Robson, among others. There was no coercion, there were not under duress, they were free to leave when they wanted. Now some investigators of this case think Epstein was duped by his recruiters since the majority of Epstein's masseuses were legal women. I think this is too charitable; he knew. But I'm not arguing that he was the victim, I'm arguing that this was a transactional relationship, and sex work researchers like Elizabeth Nolan Brown have found underage workers are fairly common in prostitution cases.

And QAnon was not specifically about children locked in basements. It's a more generalized descendant of the Pizzagate crap. QAnon hijacked the Epstein case.
 
Venom said:
Way to totally misrepresent what I said! Geezus.

The reason I pointed out that the Palm Beach high schoolers lied about their age and some had fake IDs is because we need to be clear they made a voluntary choice to go to his house, encouraged by none other than Virginia Roberts and Haley Robson, among others. There was no coercion, there were not under duress, they were free to leave when they wanted. Now some investigators of this case think Epstein was duped by his recruiters since the majority of Epstein's masseuses were legal women. I think this is too charitable; he knew. But I'm not arguing that he was the victim, I'm arguing that this was a transactional relationship, and sex work researchers like Elizabeth Nolan Brown have found underage workers are fairly common in prostitution cases.

And QAnon was not specifically about children locked in basements. It's a more generalized descendant of the Pizzagate crap. QAnon hijacked the Epstein case.
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Statutory rape is always the fault of the adult, for a reason. Your "defense" of 'but those girls wanted it' ignores that. This is 100% on the adults in the situation, 0% on those girls.

And the bit you quoted was about Pizza-gate, and explicitly mentioned the non-existent basement. Again, you're trying to defend a known sex trafficker who in your own opinion knew he was boinking underage girls by bringing up a baseless conspiracy theory about a sex abuse ring for "adrenochrome harvesting" in a non-existent basement.
 
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