Split Thread Are Antifa and violent leftists the cause of everything wrong in America?

[Opcode]

It's... it's literally what the word means. Literally. Anti-Fascism. Anti-Fa. Antifa.

Antifa is not the only game in town! Antifa are a bunch of Leftists, originally Communists, who fight against their political enemy. Not everybody who opposes fascism is Antifa. The name refers to a very real, literal and specific group.

"Antifaschistische Aktion (German: [ˌantifaˈʃɪstɪʃə ʔakˈtsi̯oːn], lit. 'Anti-fascist Action') was a communist militant organisation in the Weimar Republic, founded and controlled by the Communist Party of Germany (KPD).[1][2] Antifaschistische Aktion opposed anti-Nazi resistance efforts by moderate parties, such as the Eiserne Front, which included the Reichsbanner Schwarz-Rot-Gold and others,[3] and pro-Nazi paramilitary forces, like the Sturmabteilung (SA).[4] The group strongly opposed the Social Democratic Party of Germany and sought to establish a council republic in Germany.[5][6][7]

"In the postwar era, the historical organisation has inspired new groups and networks, including the German antifa movement, many of which use the aesthetics of Antifaschistische Aktion, especially the antifa moniker and logo. During the Cold War, Antifaschistische Aktion had a dual legacy in East Germany and West Germany, respectively. In East Germany, it was considered part of the history and heritage of the KPD's successor, the Socialist Unity Party of Germany. In West Germany, its aesthetics and name were embraced by Maoists and later autonomists from the 1970s."

Antifaschistische Aktion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Trausti]

It's... it's literally what the word means. Literally. Anti-Fascism. Anti-Fa. Antifa.

Yet, they act exactly like fascists.

 

[Resume]

Snicker.

 

[dirtywick]

You might not, but at least two people on this thread did, in addition to Rep. Jerry Nadler (D-NY). I saw nobody else confront the people on this thread on that denial, so it is important that we establish this basic fact.

alright, nothing to do with me then.

Antifa exists and engages in acts of physical intimidation to advance its political agenda, aka, they are terrorists.

It felt good, though.

I know that people who have physically assaulted ICE have been charged and are facing trial for interfering with the lawful duties of law enforcement agents. Predictably, the people who think that just anybody (especially Leftists) who wants to cross into this country should have free reign to do so are upset that the government is putting a stop to it.

Welcome to my world! I can't even get an admission from most of the opposition that Antifa even exists, much less that it engaged in terrorist activity! Yet, I'm supposed to just accept that anybody who is targeted by these people is fascist!

i don’t agree with your characterization of antifa anymore than the people saying they don’t exist. regardless, antifa hasn’t been relevant since the blm summer. it’s just some old recycled culture war crap. worst part is they’re lying about violating people’s civil rights and trying to frame everything like it’s blm summer and these major cities are being destroyed in riots and they need to deal with these crazy antifa terrorists when it’s simply not happening. so it’s a fools game to even be revisiting this 5 year old argument because it’s irrelevant.

 

[EHocking]

Alissa Azar was officially found guilty of riot and second-degree disorderly conduct, just like the first article that I posted said. That's not merely ICE's accusation against her; that's what the court handed down.

Azar found guilty after 2021 clash with Proud Boys at Clackamette Park | Clackamas County

Alissa Azar was found guilty by a Clackamas County jury Aug. 14 on charges related to a 2021 riot in Oregon City that involved a clash between Antifa and Proud Boys.

www.clackamas.us

Bias reporting and posting is evident.
Did you read the last two paragraphs in that attack piece?

Several Proud Boy affiliates have also been charged. Gordon Cronk, 33, and Tommy Campbell, 48, have also been indicted on riot charges. Both failed to appear for their arraignments, and warrants were issued for their arrest. They are currently wanted by law enforcement.

Meanwhile, fellow Proud Boy affiliate Barry Johnson was charged with disorderly conduct and harassment for his alleged role in the riot. His trial is set for Nov. 12.

So several Proud Boys were charged in this protest but this paper (and you) concentrated only on one person that you both wanted to vilify.

 

[Trausti]

The Committee of Public Safety. It's... it's literally what the word means. Literally. Public. Safety. Public safety.

 

[ZiprHead]

Antifa is not the only game in town! Antifa are a bunch of Leftists, originally Communists, who fight against their political enemy. Not everybody who opposes fascism is Antifa. The name refers to a very real, literal and specific group.

"Antifaschistische Aktion (German: [ˌantifaˈʃɪstɪʃə ʔakˈtsi̯oːn], lit. 'Anti-fascist Action') was a communist militant organisation in the Weimar Republic, founded and controlled by the Communist Party of Germany (KPD).[1][2] Antifaschistische Aktion opposed anti-Nazi resistance efforts by moderate parties, such as the Eiserne Front, which included the Reichsbanner Schwarz-Rot-Gold and others,[3] and pro-Nazi paramilitary forces, like the Sturmabteilung (SA).[4] The group strongly opposed the Social Democratic Party of Germany and sought to establish a council republic in Germany.[5][6][7]

"In the postwar era, the historical organisation has inspired new groups and networks, including the German antifa movement, many of which use the aesthetics of Antifaschistische Aktion, especially the antifa moniker and logo. During the Cold War, Antifaschistische Aktion had a dual legacy in East Germany and West Germany, respectively. In East Germany, it was considered part of the history and heritage of the KPD's successor, the Socialist Unity Party of Germany. In West Germany, its aesthetics and name were embraced by Maoists and later autonomists from the 1970s."

Antifaschistische Aktion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Can you post some photographs of Antifa in action in Portland?

 

[I Am The Scum]

Nothing in that press release says anything about Antifa having a centralized command structure or national headquarters.

Perhaps you're getting closer. Let's try another softball:

Does the press release describe Antifa as one organization, or multiple organizations?

You appear to be old enough to identify the difference between singular and plural nouns. I think you can do this.

 

[Aridas]

alright, nothing to do with me then.

It's barely even relevant at all, really. Those people he's poking at? AmyStrange, for example, was somewhat reflexively trolling at him after Opcode rather invited the trolling with the quality of his argumentation. Even then, Opcode made it perfectly clear that he didn't actually comprehend much of what AmyStrange actually wrote. The rest isn't really much different, it's just that Opcode isn't really understanding nuance and is handling all this poorly. Even the Jerry Nadler bit is little more than overblown hype seized upon unreasonably. Nadler certainly had a fair point that the boogeyman treatment that Antifa was getting has little connection to reality, after all.

i don’t agree with your characterization of antifa anymore than the people saying they don’t exist. regardless, antifa hasn’t been relevant since the blm summer.

They weren't even meaningfully relevant during the BLM summer, despite all the screaming and scapegoating. They were just a convenient thing to seize onto for those who, for example, opposed BLM's goal to reduce the disproportionate police brutality against black people.

it’s just some old recycled culture war crap. worst part is they’re lying about violating people’s civil rights and trying to frame everything like it’s blm summer and these major cities are being destroyed in riots and they need to deal with these crazy antifa terrorists when it’s simply not happening. so it’s a fools game to even be revisiting this 5 year old argument because it’s irrelevant.

It's a fool's game only if you support free speech and understanding reality as it actually is. As Opcode's made perfectly clear, though, those aren't really things that he's after. Otherwise, he'd be paying more attention to what the Trump Administration actually says and does and why both what they say and do is so problematic.

 

[Nihilianth]

The only people who called themselves Antifa in the WWII Era were Communists, mostly in Germany and Italy.

No, that's word games. Opposition to fascism doesn't make one Antifa.

Only thing worse that fascists, are fascists who are pathological liars.

Literally, the entire allied forces were Antifa! As was Sicily. A crap load of underground partisans like my Sicilian grandfather, vehemently, violently, and bravely, and justly fought off the worst and most evil terroristic threat this world has ever known.

 

[Trausti]

Only thing worse that fascists, are fascists who are pathological liars.

Literally, the entire allied forces were Antifa! As was Sicily. A crap load of underground partisans like my Sicilian grandfather, vehemently, violently, and bravely, and justly fought off the worst and most evil terroristic threat this world has ever known.

This is one of the dumbest analogies, ever. If you think the guys who stormed Normandy Beach have anything in common with masked idiots causing trouble in Seattle and Portland, you're nuts.

Sure, these guys are Antifa.

 

[Opcode]

Are you talking about people who identified themselves as Antifa, or people whom others labelled as Antifa, or do you just mean protesters generally? And whose assessment was it that the police ignored misbehaviour?

The news reports identified the protestors as Antifa and it was obvious in video footage that no police were present.

I can't help wondering if you are actually just describing the views of someone who regarded all protesters as evil Antifa and wanted the police to wade in and break heads, and who was frustrated to see the police try to de-escalate tensions instead.

The police explained why they did not intervein in some instances. Reports on police response in Portland generally come from local news organizations, federal and local government statements, and watchdog groups. Portland Police Bureau (PPB) spokespersons or city officials often cited rules of engagement and the need to avoid exacerbating violence as reasons for a more hands-off approach in initial clashes. News reports often cited internal police reports and statements from PPB officers who felt they lacked the necessary resources, training, and legal authority to safely separate and make mass arrests within a volatile crowd, especially after city or state mandates limited the use of crowd control tools like tear gas.

According to "An Independent Review of the 2017 Protest Events in Charlottesville, Virginia", led by former U.S. Attorney Timothy Heaphy, State Police were directed "to remain behind barricades rather than risk injury" and that Charlottesville commanders "similarly instructed their officers not to intervene in all but the most serious physical confrontations."

 

[Opcode]

alright, nothing to do with me then.

As far as I know, other than you are posting on this thread instead of in a DM.

i don’t agree with your characterization of antifa anymore than the people saying they don’t exist. regardless, antifa hasn’t been relevant since the blm summer. it’s just some old recycled culture war crap. worst part is they’re lying about violating people’s civil rights and trying to frame everything like it’s blm summer and these major cities are being destroyed in riots and they need to deal with these crazy antifa terrorists when it’s simply not happening. so it’s a fools game to even be revisiting this 5 year old argument because it’s irrelevant.

You may be correct about that. OTOH, the Trump Administration, et. al., says that, for example, the big ambush of an ICE facility in Texas by about a half-dozen people a few months ago was by some people with ties to Antifa. I haven't taken the time to look very deeply into that situation.

 

[Opcode]

Bias reporting and posting is evident.
Did you read the last two paragraphs in that attack piece?

Aw, I see you didn't like what it said. That doesn't make it an attack piece.

So several Proud Boys were charged in this protest but this paper (and you) concentrated only on one person that you both wanted to vilify.

I concentrated on the one party that is relevant to this discussion. We are establishing whether Antifa even exists. Do you also doubt that the Proud Boys exists? I didn't think so, which is why I didn't include them.

 

[EHocking]

uh huh

 

[arthwollipot]

Literally, the entire allied forces were Antifa! As was Sicily. A crap load of underground partisans like my Sicilian grandfather, vehemently, violently, and bravely, and justly fought off the worst and most evil terroristic threat this world has ever known.

To be clear, nobody called themselves Antifa during WW2. It's a modern term.

 

[Mojo]

It's barely even relevant at all, really. Those people he's poking at? AmyStrange, for example, was somewhat reflexively trolling at him after Opcode rather invited the trolling with the quality of his argumentation. Even then, Opcode made it perfectly clear that he didn't actually comprehend much of what AmyStrange actually wrote. The rest isn't really much different, it's just that Opcode isn't really understanding nuance and is handling all this poorly. Even the Jerry Nadler bit is little more than overblown hype seized upon unreasonably. Nadler certainly had a fair point that the boogeyman treatment that Antifa was getting has little connection to reality, after all.



They weren't even meaningfully relevant during the BLM summer, despite all the screaming and scapegoating. They were just a convenient thing to seize onto for those who, for example, opposed BLM's goal to reduce the disproportionate police brutality against black people.



It's a fool's game only if you support free speech and understanding reality as it actually is. As Opcode's made perfectly clear, though, those aren't really things that he's after. Otherwise, he'd be paying more attention to what the Trump Administration actually says and does and why both what they say and do is so problematic.

Insisting on the existence an 'enemy within' is characteristic of fascism, whether that enemy is Communists, Jews, Antifa or other 'enemies of the people'.

 

[Susheel]

Aw, I see you didn't like what it said. That doesn't make it an attack piece.

I concentrated on the one party that is relevant to this discussion. We are establishing whether Antifa even exists. Do you also doubt that the Proud Boys exists? I didn't think so, which is why I didn't include them.

You never answered...why do right-wingers love Nazis and sexual abusers so much?

 

[Susheel]

Leftist is NOT an invective. I am a proud leftist.

 

[Mojo]

Leftist is NOT an invective.

It is if you're a fascist. It all depends on where your personal Overton window is.