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Split Thread Are Antifa and violent leftists the cause of everything wrong in America?

Helen said:
Ok then, I suppose we have settled for "I can't believe its not fascism" then.
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Who's "we"? I in fact can believe that Portland government and community is not fascism. You seem to be the one who can't believe it's not fascism. You seem to be assuming that if people were rioting, vandalizing, firing, looting in downtown Portland, then it must have been justified by the fascist policies of that city.

The truth is much simpler, stupider, and more depressing: Rioters in Portland don't commit political violence in response to fascism. They cry "fasicsm" to excuse gratuitious vandalism under the banner of political violence.

Helen said:
And i am not at all sure what your opinions about Portland in 2020 have to do with my post.
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I've lived in Portland for almost ten years. I have direct experience of how militant leftists behave on their home turf. 2020 was the high point of "anti-fascist" political violence in the city. I think it provides a very useful and eye-opening picture of the "anti-fascist" movement.
 
theprestige said:
Who's "we"? I in fact can believe that Portland government and community is not fascism. You seem to be the one who can't believe it's not fascism. You seem to be assuming that if people were rioting, vandalizing, firing, looting in downtown Portland, then it must have been justified by
the fascist policies of that city.

The truth is much simpler, stupider, and more depressing: Rioters in Portland don't commit political violence in response to fascism. They cry "fasicsm" to excuse gratuitious vandalism under the banner of political violence.


I've lived in Portland for almost ten years. I have direct experience of how militant leftists behave on their home turf. 2020 was the high point of "anti-fascist" political violence in the city. I think it provides a very useful and eye-opening picture of the "anti-fascist" movement.
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What a remarkably dishonest way of spinning things. By that blinkered logic, every single No-Kings protest around America was only protesting against a King of that particular city.
 
theprestige said:
I've lived in Portland for almost ten years. I have direct experience of how militant leftists behave on their home turf. 2020 was the high point of "anti-fascist" political violence in the city. I think it provides a very useful and eye-opening picture of the "anti-fascist" movement.
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There were also a lot of profa violence at the time but you are ignoring that, I guess because the cops also ignored it so effectively it never happened.

But you need to provide some clear evidence about the people who committed those acts, we know there were false flags like the boogaloo boy from Texas who went to Minneapolis to shoot at cops, while I am sure you count him as antifa no one else does.
 
theprestige said:
I've lived in Portland for almost ten years. I have direct experience of how militant leftists behave on their home turf. 2020 was the high point of "anti-fascist" political violence in the city. I think it provides a very useful and eye-opening picture of the "anti-fascist" movement.
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And you know they were leftist how?
 
theprestige said:
I've lived in Portland for almost ten years. I have direct experience of how militant leftists behave on their home turf. 2020 was the high point of "anti-fascist" political violence in the city. I think it provides a very useful and eye-opening picture of the "anti-fascist" movement.
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I went to church when I was a kid and the preacher cheated on his wife. I think this exposes the inherently adulterous nature of Christianity.

See how stupid this sounds?
 
wareyin said:
What a remarkably dishonest way of spinning things. By that blinkered logic, every single No-Kings protest around America was only protesting against a King of that particular city.
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It's one thing to raise your voice in protest against monarchies everywhere, from wherever you happen to be.

It's another thing to gather in the center of one of the most anti-fascist cities in the country, to vandalize, burn, and loot it in the name of "anti-fascism".

Unless that's what anti-fascism actually is in practice? Gratuitous mayhem agains the nearest target, even if it doesn't make sense? Because that would explain a lot about how antifa behaves.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Protests occurred in both Portland and Seattle in 1999. In general the issue was protesting the WTO. And no TP, it wasn't "gratuitous vandalism" as you describe it in post #303.

Wiki account
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I was here in Seattle at the time, and it was relatively peaceful until a group of "alleged" anarchist ran down one street and threw rocks through windows, and after that, the cops got stupid, but of course, the fat clown and his maga weirdo in Texas (AG Paxton), would've called these anarchist antifa because they were violent.

The worst thing the real protestors did was try to block the WTO attendees from going into their meeting place. They weren't violent, just blocked the doors with their bodies.

The cops then shot off pepper spray cannons and pushed everyone back to Capitol Hill.

They even continued the crap for the next two Mardi Gras celebrations in Pioneer Square by marching in and forcing everyone out at around 2 am.

I was even pepper sprayed myself when I saw the cops lined up waiting to march in, and I tried to go back into Pioneer Square.

I'm just glad that idiot Stammer is no longer the Police Chief here in Seattle.
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
Protests occurred in both Portland and Seattle in 1999. In general the issue was protesting the WTO. And no TP, it wasn't "gratuitous vandalism" as you describe it in post #303.

Wiki account
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It absolutely was gratuitous. Nothing the city of Portland did, or allowed, in 2020-2021 justified the months of down town vandalism, arson and looting that took place.
 
I honestly don't feel like getting too involved in the trollishness/bickering back and forth going on, but I would like to weigh in just a little.

Matthew Best said:
Meanwhile anything bad done by people who describe themselves as "Antifa" is dismissed as they aren't the "Antifa" that Trump is describing. What a productive discussion we're having!
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This is a weird take all around.

First point: The "Antifa" that Trump and the Republican propaganda machine screams about is a boogeyman that effectively boils down to anyone who opposes them. Any attempt to narrow the group that they claim are "Antifa" down to just the people who describe themselves as "Antifa" and do bad things requires extreme cherry-picking, at best.

Second point: The problems/danger posed by the people who describe themselves as "Antifa" and do bad things is nothing new and hasn't really changed much for quite a fair while now. They're problematic, sure, but the actual threat they pose is minor. The attention they've been getting has nothing to do with the actual threat that they pose or the damages that they've done and everything to do with the Republican propaganda machine working to push deceptive and often outright false narratives to keep the attention away from Republicans being far worse by all the relevant numbers.

Third point: The extreme dishonesty and misrepresentation that the Republican propaganda machine have engaged in regarding Antifa has led to backlash, which you rather seem to be experiencing. Trump and co doing what they can to declare their extremely vaguely defined Antifa to be "domestic terrorists" as an excuse to bring the force of the government to crack down on opposition has intensified that backlash. There's a lot less patience for dealing with that BS these days, I think, because of how it's being used to threaten and attack all of our free speech rights.
 
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Aridas said:
Third point: The extreme dishonesty and misrepresentation that the Republican propaganda machine have engaged in regarding Antifa has led to backlash, which you rather seem to be experiencing. Trump and co doing what they can to declare their extremely vaguely defined Antifa to be "domestic terrorists" as an excuse to bring the force of the government to crack down on opposition has intensified that backlash. There's a lot less patience for dealing with that BS these days, I think, because of how it's being used to threaten and attack all of our free speech rights.
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Yup, just like how that jury just acquitted that sandwich throwing guy, and I have to admit that I'm not if sure it's part of the backlash, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit.
 
dirtywick said:

here’s an interview with antifa members, starts around 24m. they talk a bit about the organization and some other things
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An interview??? Looks like the Oregon Dope Smokers Collective on a binge. ;)

Yep, they are a bunch of ragged, gap-toothed, straggle-haired, aging hippies who all probably need a decent bath. But they were not the ones throwing rocks and breaking stuff. They were just wearing inflatable frog outfits and chanting stuff (and playing the guitars badly - aargh!). That hardly makes them "international terrorists". In fact, if I was investing millions into organising a serious international terror group, these people would not get invited to the first interviews. But they are genuine and they are fun, and they are SO American! Are they anti-fascist? Definitely! Are they part of an internationally organised "antifa" group? Nope! :)
 
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