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Does the Shroud of Turin Show Expected Elongation of the Head in 2D?"

catsmate said:
Well it was more the medieval debate over the depiction of the Divine Genitals and whether he, as Avatar of God, actually had such unnecessary bits, and whether (and to what degree) he'd been emasculated as part of the execution.
I'm not making this up.

To quote myself (it was when @bobdroege7 had discovered the Prey Codex and was wittering on about how it proved his nonsense)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostentatio_genitalium
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There really wasn't much to do at night in the middle ages....
 
catsmate said:
Well it was more the medieval debate over the depiction of the Divine Genitals and whether he, as Avatar of God, actually had such unnecessary bits, and whether (and to what degree) he'd been emasculated as part of the execution.
I'm not making this up.

To quote myself (it was when @bobdroege7 had discovered the Prey Codex and was wittering on about how it proved his nonsense)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostentatio_genitalium
Click to expand...
The positioning of the hands on the Pray Codex, note: not the prey codex, was never part of my argument why the Pray Codex proves the shroud existed before it was exhibited in Lirey France.

And no, I did not discover the Pray Codex.

Can you at least try to stop lying?
 
bobdroege7 said:
The positioning of the hands on the Pray Codex, note: not the prey codex, was never part of my argument why the Pray Codex proves the shroud existed before it was exhibited in Lirey France.

And no, I did not discover the Pray Codex.

Can you at least try to stop lying?
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He was using the word discover in the meaning of you personally learning of something e.g. I went to YouTube and discovered that there are many videos of cute cats.
 
bobdroege7 said:
The positioning of the hands on the Pray Codex, note: not the prey codex, was never part of my argument why the Pray Codex proves the shroud existed before it was exhibited in Lirey France.
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What is this even supposed to mean?
bobdroege7 said:
And no, I did not discover the Pray Codex.
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:rolleyes: You suddenly started spouting demonstrably nonsensical claims about the Codex and how it proved the Lirey Cloth existed far before the radiocarbon dating.
I exposed this as a farrago of rubbish.
bobdroege7 said:
Can you at least try to stop lying?
Click to expand...
:rolleyes:

Now are you going to show us evidence of your magically invisible repairs to the cloth? Show us the photographs that show repairs on the sampled area?

Oh, and have you learned the difference between 'accuracy' and 'precision' while you were away? Perhaps brushed up on basic statistics.....
Or are we going to get more gibberrings about χ2 tests?
Not forgetting:
1. What exactly in the "Hymn of the Pearl" shows the existence of a shroud?
2. Have you asked the University of California about your claimed secret radiocarbon test?
3. Will you be addressing the size of the sample of the supposed shroud available for that secret radiocarbon test?
4. Will you be showing us evidence that cloth of a pattern similar to that of the Lirey cloth existed in the first century?
5. And what about the undocumented fire that caused the damage to the cloth that you claim appears in the Pray Codex?

And I note, with no surprise, that @bobdroege7 hasn't mentioned the Oresme Manuscript or Sarzeaud's paper about it, which are probably the most exciting happenings in the world of shroudism for years. As well as being actually interesting.
Darat said:
He was using the word discover in the meaning of you personally learning of something e.g. I went to YouTube and discovered that there are many videos of cute cats.
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Exactly. It was pretty obvious that @bobdroege7 had just bing'd it and thought the Codex was the Smoking Gnu.
 
BTW, for anyone interested in the current state of shroud "research" (or self-delusion) there are numerous video recordings from the Shroud Educational Endeavors Corporation gathering, about three months ago, on YouTube (and elsewhere)
There were more than four hundred attendees, including many who should be at least vaguely familiar to habitués of this thread; Tristan Casabianca (who recently had a 'paper' rejected for "an unacceptable level of personal attack"), Andrew Dalton, Giulio Fanti (fresh from another round of embarrassing paper retractions), Jeremiah Johnston, Kelly Kearse, Gilbert Lavoie, Jack Markwardt, Rob Rucker, et cetera,

Fascinatingly many of the "papers" presented contradicted each other. Rather amusingly the image was confidently declared to have been formed when the supposed body was:
  1. Suspended vertically with the cloth hanging down in front and behind the deceased. [Lavoie]
  2. The deceased was suspended horizontally with the cloth hovering above and below him. [Rucker]
  3. The cloth was tightly wrapped around the horizontal body. [Fanti and Dalton]
  4. The body was hanging vertically, but in a single-bar yoke position [Moon]
The last of these rather reminds me of out last munch....

Peripherally related to previous in-thread discussion regarding the Divine Genitalia, Al Reed‘ confidently asserts that the body in the image is not naked but was wearing a loincloth.


For the attention of @bobdroege7, the new Big Thing in shroudism is the 'neutron activation' "hypothesis" (or 'neutron enrichment hypothesis'); you need to change bandwagons before this one also passes into oblivion.
Alas this requires abandoning the deeply held (or at least proclaimed) belief in flaws in the radiocarbon dating (so magic patches, contamination, sabotage or KGB plots any more, they're outdated in the fast moving world of shroud self-delusion.
Even Bobby Rucker is back tracking:
“I am assuming what I believe to be true, and that would be that the equipment at the laboratories correctly measured the [ratio of] carbon-14 to carbon-12 in the samples they were given, […] that the equipment was operating properly, the individuals were not cheating or intentionally trying to alter them, and that the chemicals and everything else that they were doing was reasonable. And they always do, they typically do control standards in order to validate their analysis. […] It’s most reasonable to assume that they correctly measured the carbon-14 to carbon-12 in the samples they were given.”
Click to expand...

Other "highlights" include Lauto‘s claim of a massively powerful earthquake during the alleged crucifixion; magnitude 8.8 no less. This is necessary for the weird theory involing piezo-electric effects to create the image.
Alas, while there is some evidence of a earthquake around that time (well somewhere in the 26 to 36 CE block) geology puts it in a different location and it certainly wasn't 8.8 magnitude. given that Jerusalem survived and no-one deemed the event worth of note. 8.8 would have been approximately six times as powerful as the 1556 Shaanxi earthquake which killed over one hundred thousand people......

At the fringe of the periphery is a new idea, the shroud is actually from India! Casabianca seems to be pushing this one, by means of some really silly etymology.

Despite claims of "global experts" presenting, few of the speakers even managed 'expert' level in anything.

Also for all this effort, the Lirey Cloth remains a medieval fake.
 
catsmate said:
Tristan Casabianca (who recently had a 'paper' rejected for "an unacceptable level of personal attack")
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No suprise there. It's pretty evident in the paper we reviewed here, but I didn't want to pay too much attention to it because I felt it was more appropriate to focus on the science and statistics shenanigans he was trying to pull.

catsmate said:
Peripherally related to previous in-thread discussion regarding the Divine Genitalia, Al Reed‘ confidently asserts that the body in the image is not naked but was wearing a loincloth.
Click to expand...
Amazing then that such a garment has never shown up in any of the reliquaries. Given how much fanatical relic-collecting I saw with my own eyes, I find it had to believe that Our Lord's Holy Jockstrap isn't occupying a place of honor somewhere as was the alleged sudarium. Of course the biblical accounts mention no such thing, and conventional wisdom holds that the Romans crucified people naked. (The crucifixee, not the Romans.)

catsmate said:
For the attention of @bobdroege7, the new Big Thing in shroudism is the 'neutron activation' "hypothesis" ...
Click to expand...
More magic physics. The "bogus statistics" and "hidden results" claims seem to have finally fallen apart—as they should have. I don't think they were ever intended to do more than give brief false hope to the gullible.

catsmate said:
Other "highlights" include Lauto‘s claim of a massively powerful earthquake during the alleged crucifixion; magnitude 8.8 no less. This is necessary for the weird theory involing piezo-electric effects to create the image.
Click to expand...
Which seems to have failed to produce a record of any such image anywhere else in ancient Palestine, even if you grant that such an earthquake actually happened.

catsmate said:
Also for all this effort, the Lirey Cloth remains a medieval fake.
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Decades of stumbling about trying to find some way of making an obviously religious belief seem like it has a foothold in science.
 
JayUtah said:
Indeed, it was abundantly clear what @catsmate meant by the statement. @bobdroege7's reaction is a deliberately obtuse cheap shot.
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Says the cheap shot artist himself, "you don't know anything about statistics"

Finally admitting the chi^2 test does show lack of homogeneity, which is most important with respect to carbon dating.

So you don't know anything about statistics or carbon dating.
 
bobdroege7 said:
Says the cheap shot artist himself, "you don't know anything about statistics"
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I spent a great deal of time trying to teach you statistics. You didn’t learn anything.

Finally admitting the chi^2 test does show lack of homogeneity, which is most important with respect to carbon dating.
Click to expand...
According to whom?

So you don't know anything about statistics or carbon dating.
Click to expand...
No fringe reset for you.
 
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