Split Thread Are Antifa and violent leftists the cause of everything wrong in America?

[Opcode]

See, that's what I mean about being a poor researcher.

You ignore the group he admitted he belonged to, and they are definitely not made up of just one person.

You are ignoring the fact that BLM and Antifa engaged in violent protests that caused billions of dollars in damage and resulted in dozens of people killed.

Split from Here

Posted By: jimbob

 

[AmyStrange]

You are ignoring the fact that BLM and Antifa engaged in violent protests that caused billions of dollars in damage and resulted in dozens of people killed.

BTW, regardless of what the fat clown says, there is no such group as antifa, unless you count all those soldiers who fought against Hitler in WWII.

 

[Opcode]

BTW, regardless of what the fat clown says, there is no such group as antifa, unless you count all those soldiers who fought against Hitler in WWII.

Lots of people identify as Antifa. Local Antifa groups definitely exist, and they definitely organize protests.

 

[AmyStrange]

Lots of people identify as Antifa. Local Antifa groups definitely exist, and they definitely organize protests.

So like the fat clown, you think they're a terrorist group... bwahahahahahahaha... thanks for the laugh and for helping to prove me right.

BTW, where's their website? Where do they meet? I want to go.

 

[Opcode]

So like the fat clown, you think they're a terrorist group... bwahahahahahahaha

Burning down cities, smashing storefronts and assaulting people are actions of terrorist groups. Of course, terrorist sympathizers would deny that takes place. This is how the Left has acted around the world for almost two centuries.

Where's there website? Where do they meet? I want to go.

You know very well how to meet up with a local group.

 

[AmyStrange]

Burning down cities, smashing storefronts and assaulting people are actions of terrorist groups. Of course, terrorist sympathizers would deny that takes place. This is how the Left has acted around the world for almost two centuries.

So, what proof do you have that they were members of this so-called group. Were they wearing signs saying, "I'm antifa".

You know very well how to meet up with a local group.

TRANSLATION: I don't have any proof.

Thank you.

 

[Opcode]

So, what proof do you have that they were members of this so-called group. Were they wearing signs saying, "I'm antifa".

Some of them were.

TRANSLATION: I don't have any proof.

Like I said earlier, we know who they were because some of them were arrested, tried and convicted in courts of law.

"Alissa Azar was found guilty by a Clackamas County jury Aug. 14 on charges related to a 2021 riot in Oregon City that involved a clash between Antifa and Proud Boys."

Azar found guilty after 2021 clash with Proud Boys at Clackamette Park | Clackamas County

Alissa Azar was found guilty by a Clackamas County jury Aug. 14 on charges related to a 2021 riot in Oregon City that involved a clash between Antifa and Proud Boys.

www.clackamas.us

"Journalist Andy Ngo was awarded $300,000 on Aug. 21, 2023, in a lawsuit against purported anti-fascists who he says assaulted him in Portland, Oregon, in 2019 and 2021."

Independent journalist files assault charges following May Day protests

Andy Ngo, who identifies as an independent journalist and photographer, says he was sprayed with bear repellent and assaulted while …

pressfreedomtracker.us

"Since May 26, 2020, federal law enforcement authorities have arrested 100 people for crimes committed during local demonstrations."

74 People Facing Federal Charges for Crimes Committed During Portland Demonstrations

U.S. Attorney Billy J. Williams announced today that 74 people are facing federal charges for crimes committed adjacent to or under the guise of peaceful demonstrations in Portland since at least May 29, 2020.

www.justice.gov

 

[AmyStrange]

Some of them were.

Like I said earlier, we know who they were because some of them were arrested, tried and convicted in courts of law.

"Alissa Azar was found guilty by a Clackamas County jury Aug. 14 on charges related to a 2021 riot in Oregon City that involved a clash between Antifa and Proud Boys."

Azar found guilty after 2021 clash with Proud Boys at Clackamette Park | Clackamas County

Alissa Azar was found guilty by a Clackamas County jury Aug. 14 on charges related to a 2021 riot in Oregon City that involved a clash between Antifa and Proud Boys.

www.clackamas.us

"Journalist Andy Ngo was awarded $300,000 on Aug. 21, 2023, in a lawsuit against purported anti-fascists who he says assaulted him in Portland, Oregon, in 2019 and 2021."

Independent journalist files assault charges following May Day protests

Andy Ngo, who identifies as an independent journalist and photographer, says he was sprayed with bear repellent and assaulted while …

pressfreedomtracker.us

"Since May 26, 2020, federal law enforcement authorities have arrested 100 people for crimes committed during local demonstrations."

74 People Facing Federal Charges for Crimes Committed During Portland Demonstrations

U.S. Attorney Billy J. Williams announced today that 74 people are facing federal charges for crimes committed adjacent to or under the guise of peaceful demonstrations in Portland since at least May 29, 2020.

www.justice.gov

Sorry, but none of that proves antifa is an organized group or that anyone belongs to it.

My conclusion: You must be a pro-fascist.

Good luck with that.

 

[Opcode]

Can you show that the people breaking shop windows and looting were actual leftists? By that, I mean people who believe in economic equality, DEI, universal healthcare, social safety nets, workers' rights, LGTBQ+ rights, publicly funded education, racial equality, immigration reform, gun control, and redistricting reform?

Or were they anarchists and apolitical hoodlums using a chaotic situation to their own advantage?

I'll remind you that last month 7 million people gathered on one day to protest Trump's administrations, and there were no riots and very, very few arrests.

Anarchists are on the Left end of the political spectrum. As I recall, Marx postulated that as society evolves, it will pass through the Communist stage before entering the Anarchist stage. Anyway, the Left has always had internal disagreement as to whether violent revolution is necessary for social change. Some engage in it; others do not. Those who do are breaking our laws.

 

[AmyStrange]

Some of them were.

Like I said earlier, we know who they were because some of them were arrested, tried and convicted in courts of law.

"Alissa Azar was found guilty by a Clackamas County jury Aug. 14 on charges related to a 2021 riot in Oregon City that involved a clash between Antifa and Proud Boys."

Azar found guilty after 2021 clash with Proud Boys at Clackamette Park | Clackamas County

Alissa Azar was found guilty by a Clackamas County jury Aug. 14 on charges related to a 2021 riot in Oregon City that involved a clash between Antifa and Proud Boys.

www.clackamas.us

"Journalist Andy Ngo was awarded $300,000 on Aug. 21, 2023, in a lawsuit against purported anti-fascists who he says assaulted him in Portland, Oregon, in 2019 and 2021."

Independent journalist files assault charges following May Day protests

Andy Ngo, who identifies as an independent journalist and photographer, says he was sprayed with bear repellent and assaulted while …

pressfreedomtracker.us

"Since May 26, 2020, federal law enforcement authorities have arrested 100 people for crimes committed during local demonstrations."

74 People Facing Federal Charges for Crimes Committed During Portland Demonstrations

U.S. Attorney Billy J. Williams announced today that 74 people are facing federal charges for crimes committed adjacent to or under the guise of peaceful demonstrations in Portland since at least May 29, 2020.

www.justice.gov

Come to think of it, I'm against fascism too so I must also be a terrorist.

Come and get me you stupid, lying, fat clown.

 

[AmyStrange]

Anarchists are on the Left end of the political spectrum. As I recall, Marx postulated that as society evolves, it will pass through the Communist stage before entering the Anarchist stage. Anyway, the Left has always had internal disagreement as to whether violent revolution is necessary for social change. Some engage in it; others do not. Those who do are breaking our laws.

More blanket statements with no proof, proving once again, that you have no credibility.

Thank you.

 

[Norman Alexander]

You are ignoring the fact that BLM and Antifa engaged in violent protests that caused billions of dollars in damage and resulted in dozens of people killed.

What "fact" was that? A Fox fact?

Seriously, you need to send a letter to the CEO of antifa. Their address is 1 DoesNotExist Street, Imaginationville.

 

[Blue Mountain]

Anarchists are on the Left end of the political spectrum. As I recall, Marx postulated that as society evolves, it will pass through the Communist stage before entering the Anarchist stage. Anyway, the Left has always had internal disagreement as to whether violent revolution is necessary for social change. Some engage in it; others do not. Those who do are breaking our laws.

You sidestepped my question.

Can you show that the people breaking shop windows and looting were actual leftists? By that, I mean people who believe in economic equality, DEI, universal healthcare, social safety nets, workers' rights, LGTBQ+ rights, publicly funded education, racial equality, immigration reform, gun control, and redistricting reform?

Or were they anarchists and apolitical hoodlums using a chaotic situation to their own advantage?

(My bad: anarchists should not be equated with lawlessness. At its core, anarchist belief is society can be organized around mutual aid and consensus—left wing ideas!)

 

[AmyStrange]

You sidestepped my question.

Can you show that the people breaking shop windows and looting were actual leftists? By that, I mean people who believe in economic equality, DEI, universal healthcare, social safety nets, workers' rights, LGTBQ+ rights, publicly funded education, racial equality, immigration reform, gun control, and redistricting reform?

Or were they anarchists and apolitical hoodlums using a chaotic situation to their own advantage?

(My bad: anarchists should not be equated with lawlessness. At its core, anarchist belief is society can be organized around mutual aid and consensus—left wing ideas!)

Good luck getting an actual answer to your question.

 

[Aridas]

Those who were convicted prove that the Leftist attacks on the United States were not staged by the Right. Those videos we have of Leftists breaking shop windows and looting actually do represent what the Democrats and Leftists do when they want attention or don't get their way.

Ahh, the quality of logic here. So many fallacies and poorly thought through things.

"Leftist attacks on the United States" - That's quite the attempted spin, especially when it comes to the BLM protests.

"were not staged by the Right" - That's a weird claim to even try to push. All those paid actor claims coming from Republican influence that? Even AmyStrange's needling you with one of the examples of the Right-Wingers who acted to try to stir up and cause violence wouldn't invoke "staged by the Right." Were there "leftists" who engaged in violence? Absolutely. That's not even remotely the full story, though, as has pointed out.

"Those videos we have of Leftists" - And they're identified as Leftists how? Simply for your preferred narrative's convenience? I could easily point to, for example, Fox showing what they clearly presumed to be Republican young men rioting, burning things, and so on after a sports game and dismissing all that as them being enthusiastic or something like that. Compare that to them showing peaceful protest by black people and condemning the people there in extreme terms or repeatedly showing old footage of burning buildings recorded half the country away as proof about how bad things were in Portland. Forgive me if I'm not particularly impressed by the attempted outrage in play.

"breaking shop windows and looting actually do represent what the Democrats and Leftists do when they want attention or don't get their way" - The lack of self-awareness here is rather telling. Either way, when those in power choose to escalate larger scale situations repeatedly, collateral damage is an entirely normal result for all but some very pacifist groups. Police should normally be trained in the methods and effects of escalation and deescalation, regardless.

You are ignoring the fact that BLM and Antifa engaged in violent protests that caused billions of dollars in damage and resulted in dozens of people killed.

Dozens of people killed? Let's take a quick look at by who. For ease's sake, I'm just going to poke at Google's AI summary to my "BLM protests death count culprits" as a decent start to work from.

At least 42 people were killed in incidents linked to the 2020–2023 United States racial unrest (including the George Floyd and Breonna Taylor protests). The culprits include protesters, law enforcement officers, business owners, and individuals with extremist ideologies.

The deaths occurred in various circumstances, and those responsible were a mix of individuals:

• Protesters/Civilians: Some deaths resulted from confrontations between armed individuals and protesters. For example, in Kenosha, Wisconsin, Kyle Rittenhouse shot and killed two protesters (Joseph Rosenbaum and Anthony Huber) and wounded another; he was later acquitted on all charges, claiming self-defense. In Portland, Oregon, a far-right supporter (Aaron Danielson) was killed by an Antifa activist (Michael Reinoehl), who was later killed by law enforcement. In Austin, Texas, an Army sergeant (Daniel Perry) shot and killed an armed protester (Garrett Foster).
  • Law Enforcement: Law enforcement was responsible for several deaths. In Louisville, Kentucky, a restaurant owner (David McAtee) was shot and killed by National Guard troops and police officers after raising a firearm during a scuffle. In Las Vegas, four officers opened fire on an armed protester (Jorge Gomez), killing him. The four Minneapolis police officers involved in the initial incident that sparked the protests—Derek Chauvin, J. Alexander Kueng, Thomas Lane, and Tou Thao—were all convicted of federal and state charges in George Floyd's murder.
  • Business Owners/Looters: Deaths also occurred during instances of looting and property damage. A gun shop owner in Philadelphia shot and killed a suspected looter. A pawn shop owner in Minneapolis (John Rieple) shot and killed a man (Calvin Horton Jr.) outside his shop. A retired police captain (David Dorn) working security was shot and killed by a looter (Stephan Cannon) in St. Louis.
  • Extremist Groups: Members of the anti-government "Boogaloo" movement were involved in a drive-by shooting in Oakland, California, that killed a federal security officer (David Patrick Underwood) and injured another; one perpetrator (Steven Carrillo) was arrested and charged.
  • Unknown/Accidental: Some deaths were the result of hit-and-runs, accidental shootings, or the culprits were never identified or charged. For example, 8-year-old Secoriea Turner was shot and killed while riding in a car that attempted to enter a parking lot blocked by protesters in Atlanta; two men (Julian Conley and Jerrion McKinney) were later charged.

Mostly right-wingers doing the killing, by the look of it. Among them, Kyle Rittenhouse deserves some special note, of course, given how clearly the right wing demonstrated that they were happy to defend murder when it suits them. Just one of many gaping holes in that tattered mask of supposedly superior morality that you're trying to hide behind.

 

[Norman Alexander]

Are you not aware that a misdemeanor *is* a criminal offense? Also, I pointed out that sneaking in after being deported is a felony, which is another type of criminal offense. In what universe does directly contradicting you confirm what you said?

No, they are not the same. Otherwise there would be no distinction between them.

 

[Opcode]

You sidestepped my question.

Can you show that the people breaking shop windows and looting were actual leftists? By that, I mean people who believe in economic equality, DEI, universal healthcare, social safety nets, workers' rights, LGTBQ+ rights, publicly funded education, racial equality, immigration reform, gun control, and redistricting reform?

Or were they anarchists and apolitical hoodlums using a chaotic situation to their own advantage?

Puh-tat-oh, Pat-awt-oh. If somebody claims to be Antifa, such as by wearing a jacket that says "Antifa," marches with groups of people who identify as Antifa, belongs to the local Antifa group and has a history of espousing Leftist views, then I take that as sufficient evidence that they are actual Leftists. What do you want? A blood sample?

Glamorous Antifa ringleader learns fate over clashes with Proud Boys

Alissa Azar, 33, learned her fate at the Judicial District Circuit Court of Oregon on Monday, three weeks after a jury found her guilty of felony riot and disorderly conduct.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[bruto]

Sorry, but none of that proves antifa is an organized group or that anyone belongs to it.

My conclusion: You must be a pro-fascist.

Good luck with that.

That seems to fly over many heads. I rather doubt, especially nowadays, how many people actually do identify as "antifa," though it's possible some now are doing so out of sheer orneriness, as I might be tempted to if I were more socially active. But in any case, "antifa," or "anti-fascist" means a point of view. An idea. It might even be a very specific point of view with something that approaches doctrine, as do many points of view. It might even be a bad point of view that ought to be condemned and discouraged (not that I think it is). All that can be true but calling it an organization is still at best an uninformed guess and at worst a tendentious lie meant to destroy the American values of free speech and thought.

Now excuse me while I dress down for a visit to the church of atheism to not pray for success in my upcoming speech at the Anarchists' Convention.

 

[Norman Alexander]

Puh-tat-oh, Pat-awt-oh. If somebody claims to be Antifa, such as by wearing a jacket that says "Antifa," marches with groups of people who identify as Antifa, belongs to the local Antifa group and has a history of espousing Leftist views, then I take that as sufficient evidence that they are actual Leftists. What do you want? A blood sample?

Glamorous Antifa ringleader learns fate over clashes with Proud Boys

Alissa Azar, 33, learned her fate at the Judicial District Circuit Court of Oregon on Monday, three weeks after a jury found her guilty of felony riot and disorderly conduct.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Oh dear. Quoting Daily Mail, aka Daily Fail, aka Daily Heil, aka parrot-cage liner.

"...purported to be antifa leader...". But there is no antifa leadership, no organisation, no structure, no bosses. Might you not be concerned that a ◊◊◊◊-posting rag like the Mail totally made that up for gullible people like you? Hmmmm?

 

[Opcode]

That seems to fly over many heads. I rather doubt, especially nowadays, how many people actually do identify as "antifa," though it's possible some now are doing so out of sheer orneriness, as I might be tempted to if I were more socially active. But in any case, "antifa," or "anti-fascist" means a point of view. An idea. It might even be a very specific point of view with something that approaches doctrine, as do many points of view. It might even be a bad point of view that ought to be condemned and discouraged (not that I think it is). All that can be true but calling it an organization is still at best an uninformed guess and at worst a tendentious lie meant to destroy the American values of free speech and thought.

One of the oldest self-identified U.S. Antifa groups is Rose City Antifa in Portland, Oregon. It was founded in 2007. Many other local Antifa groups exist in the US. Decentralized does not mean they are not organized.