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Trump's Second Term

That's a random distraction from this topic. Odd that you would compare a group of unarmed people who were accused (sometimes convicted) only of trespassing in a public building with those who throw rocks at federal officials.


TRANSLATION: I don't want to answer, so instead, I'll distract you by calling your question a random distraction.

Anyway, how do you know the ones throwing rocks aren't associates of this guy: Ivan Harrison Hunter?


ETA: And BTW, I was responding to this quote: "The fact that the people who commit these crimes are convicted should show that."

Obviously, being convicted doesn't mean a thing to the stupid, lying, fat clown and his maga weirdoes (who are worse), unless of course, it's in their favor.
 
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The essential, core point of what you are discussing is that illegal immigrants are in the US illegally. ICE is an official government agency tasked with preventing illegal border crossings and removing people who are in the US illegally. Obstructing that function is a felony. Whatever lies the Trump Administration uses to argue for removing illegal immigrants doesn't change these facts.
No, that is not the issue I am talking about. In fact I have not the faintest idea why, given what I wrote, you might think it was. The issue is that the Republicans have repeatedly asserted that the object of the Democrats' insistence on extending the health care benefits that are the reason for the impasse in Congress is illegal immigration. I'm sure like all of us you have many things to say about many things, but for the moment I'm dealing with one lie at a time, and that's the one.
 
Not to people who depended on it.

I see. You're unable to address the point actually made.

Some of the things I hear my fellow Republicans asserting are troubling. However, those things present few practical problems for me.

That you recognize as such, perhaps.

The Democrats, though, present an existential threat to what I hold dear.
OK, how about this:

Antifa violence is a myth.

As noted previously, you seem to be relying on deceptive fantasy to defend yourself.

To be clear, the anarchists that make up the portion of Antifa that the right-wing like to make into a boogeyman certainly do cause problems. In particular, those problems tend to relate to the opposition to the belief in ownership/property rights. Petty theft, occupation of property, etc. Violence is normally low on the list of actual problems that are actually coming from Anti-Fa. It exists, sure, but the amount and danger is wildly overemphasized by right-wing propagandists to deceive those they reach. Also of note in relation to that is that much crime and violence that's done by other groups is casually misattributed to Anti-Fa by the right-wing as part of their attempts to create and feed the boogeyman.

Also of some note is that there have long been entirely law-abiding Anti-Fa groups. They just don't get much press because they wouldn't give much in the way of ratings.

Meanwhile, violence is high on the list of actual problems caused by far right groups. Where Anti-Fa has virtually no deaths and murders that can reasonably be linked to them, right-wing extremists normally have the overwhelming share of such. More broadly, right-wing domestic terrorism numbers are consistently overwhelmingly highly than left-wing domestic terrorism numbers.

The real threat that one should be paying attention to it from the right, in short, objectively speaking.

No, I'm going to fight you on that one. From the start, Donald Trump did his best to keep Chinese nationals out of this country when the epidemic first broke (before it was even declared a pandemic),

In a too little, too late kind of way that was disorganized, incompetent, ignored the part where the disease had already spread elsewhere and so took no measures to guard against COVID itself until far too late...

Also, this is irrelevant to the point that Trump's COVID LIES caused more harm and death by orders of magnitude. Trump was caught on tape admitting that he was knowingly lying to the public about how bad COVID was, no less.

but Democrats retaliated by declaring Hug A Chinese Day. As I recall, Nancy Pelosi chose that time to make a visit to Chinatown, just to express solidarity with the Chinese. They tried to paint it as Trump is racist. So, COVID came to this country. Admittedly, it likely would have, eventually, but it isn't right claiming that Trump was the problem.

That. Was. NOT. The. Claim.

With that said, Trump was likely the single biggest problem, after COVID itself, though. Certainly not the only one, but the biggest single problem individual. On the front relevant to the actual claim that I made, Trump fueled 38% of COVID disinformation. That is absurdly massive for a single individual. It's no accident that the death ratio in Republican areas surpassed that in Democratic areas in the end.

On other fronts that you're ignoring, and this isn't even remotely all inclusive, Trump paved the way for COVID's spread by cutting a program in China that, even if it didn't nip it in the bud, likely would have ended up helping to warn the world notably sooner so the world could possibly take appropriate action before it was too late. Trump pretty well hobbled and dismantled the US' ability to respond to pandemics in general before COVID as well, and the federal response after finally starting to take action was chaotic and corrupt to an extreme.

Trump launched Operation Warp Speed (OWS), which proved critical in developing a vaccine against SARS-CoV2. The government invoked the Defense Production Act (DPA) and appropriate massive amounts of funding into fighting COVID. A trillion dollars of federal spending is attributable to Trump's actions fighting COVID.

Operation Warp Speed is one of the very few positive things that Trump can reasonable be given some credit for. It doesn't even remotely outweigh the rest, though, and nor does it at all address the claim that was actually made.

Too bad that Trump doesn't get a pass for having Democratic or institutional opposition.

If he were actually trying to do things that would help the country to help the country, I'd likely give him a pass.

Several of the initiatives that Trump is tackling are issues that have festered, rotted, in our society for decades, but nobody else would touch them. Democrats have been protecting these things, which should in many cases result in the arrest, convictions and prison sentences of a lot of Democrats. They haven't played nice in more than half a century. That's why I'm able to tolerate what Trump is doing now. You richly deserve all of this and more! It's necessary, because the morally and mentally depraved have a firm grip on power in this country and across much of the world.

This rather goes back to the deceptive fantasy bit.

To be clear, there are most definitely a bunch of actual issue that have festered in our society for decades... it's just that trusting Republicans to make things better is generally a fool's move. Fairly consistently, Republican propaganda latches onto real problems (often caused by Republicans) and screams loudly about them. When they get in power on the premise of dealing with those problems, they tend to offer flashy solutions that are minimally effective at dealing with the symptoms (if they don't outright make them worse), while quietly making numerous policy changes that cause the roots of the problem to get worse and worse.

That's Trump's method of tackling these issues in a nutshell, though. Show over substance and he wants the issues to scream about far more than he actually wants them solved.

An empty claim.

*shrug* It's certainly what I heard and saw when I was paying attention at the time.

Some people must have thought it important, or he wouldn't have said it.

Sure. That doesn't change how bad it is as an attempt at equivocation.

That's pretty much true of every political group that has existed for the last thousand years. Probably much longer.

An empty claim.

Wow! That isn't even close to true!

An empty claim.
 
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As opposed to the Democrats, who defy federal law to shelter people who are in the US illegally, a crime that incidentally benefits the Democratic Party politically.

Alright. Just because. Before anything else, I don't think that you understand that the majority of people in the US illegally are here because of Republicans providing demand for their services. Republicans have long vilified those same people as a power flex to keep them scared, isolated, and keep their labor super cheap. That vilification has grown and taken on a life of its own, of course, as such things do.

No, it makes it clear what the central, core point is.

No, it doesn't.

I was thinking (with obviously dangerous and silly results of course, but anyway...) We keep hearing that we need a "compromise" of some sort to end the government shutdown, so here's my suggestion. The Democrats say they'll give in on the health care issue on one condition: that the Republican leadership publicly announce that their arguments against the Democrats, such as those about subsidizing illegal aliens, and the false numbers they have bandied about, are lies. Various other obvious lies could be added to the list or not. The only requirement here would be that Mike Johnson, on behalf of the whole party, with no irony and no walkback and no excuses, publicly confesses that his party has attempted to carry the day with lies, and that the word "lies" be explicitly used. Admit that your argument is a lie, and if you still can find a good reason to promote it, we'll bend.

Of course they wouldn't do it, no way. But if Schumer or other Democratic leaders had the balls to make that demand publicly, and to use the explicit word "lies," which has so far been underused, perhaps it would at least get some people talking.

Of course it's crazy too. But why not be crazy too?

It's completely irrelevant to the core point in this post, which that conversation came from. In this post, illegal aliens are mentioned, yes, but even then, it's completely different from what you claim is the core point.


I've yet to see anybody even claim a specific illegal activity by ICE, much less have it proved in court. Regardless, physically assaulting and obstructing ICE in the performance of its duties is illegal, even if you think that ICE is engaged in illegal activities. The fact that the people who commit these crimes are convicted should show that.

I'd say that you haven't paid much attention, then. An easy example, though, is how ICE has deported US citizens after abducting them off the street and refusing to do even a basic verification after being told that the person was a citizen. This is something that almost exclusively seems to happen during Republican Administrations, of course. There's lots and lots more, though, of course.
 
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What a ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ joke of a reply; he intimated they were. "They're poisoning the blood of our country." He stoked fear about migrants and his idiot cultists filled in the blanks.
Empty and weak claim.
Focus on this thead and the egregious lies your felonious dear leader told about the war zones in Chicago and Portland, used to stoke fear and paranoia and justity turning masked cowards loose in cites that didn't vote for him
Portland saw over 100 consecutive nights of protests in 2020, frequently escalating into riots. This led to nearly 1,000 arrests in the summer of 2020 alone. Multiple attempts were made to start fires at the Mark O. Hatfield Federal Courthouse in downtown Portland, with federal officers inside. Fires were set at the Portland Police Association (PPA) building (the police union headquarters). Small, scattered fires (e.g., dumpsters, small barricades, etc.) set during nightly demonstrations.

Chicago experienced major unrest and rioting beginning in late May 2020. Incidents of arson often occurred alongside looting, with businesses or structures being set on fire, particularly on the West and South Sides of the city, causing significant property damage. Chicago was a major contributor to the national tally of $1 billion to $2 billion in damaged caused by arson nationally.

These the allies of Democrats. This is how Democrats and the Left respond to those who disagrees with them.
 
Empty and weak claim.

Portland saw over 100 consecutive nights of protests in 2020, frequently escalating into riots. This led to nearly 1,000 arrests in the summer of 2020 alone. Multiple attempts were made to start fires at the Mark O. Hatfield Federal Courthouse in downtown Portland, with federal officers inside. Fires were set at the Portland Police Association (PPA) building (the police union headquarters). Small, scattered fires (e.g., dumpsters, small barricades, etc.) set during nightly demonstrations.

Chicago experienced major unrest and rioting beginning in late May 2020. Incidents of arson often occurred alongside looting, with businesses or structures being set on fire, particularly on the West and South Sides of the city, causing significant property damage. Chicago was a major contributor to the national tally of $1 billion to $2 billion in damaged caused by arson nationally.

These the allies of Democrats. This is how Democrats and the Left respond to those who disagrees with them.

Can you prove that these escalations weren't being committed by associates of Ivan Harrison Hunter, or even by Ivan himself?

One thing I hate more than anything else are stupid people who use blanket statements (without any proof) to prove their point.
 
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TRANSLATION: I don't want to answer, so instead, I'll distract you by calling your question a random distraction.
This is a thread dealing with Trump's Second Term. We were discussing ICE and illegal immigration. Inserting J6 in there is random. And, I answered it, anyway.
Anyway, how do you know the ones throwing rocks aren't associates of this guy: Ivan Harrison Hunter?
Obviously, because several of those who threw rocks were arrested, tried and convicted. We know who they are and often know their affiliations.
ETA: And BTW, I was responding to this quote: "The fact that the people who commit these crimes are convicted should show that."

Obviously, being convicted doesn't mean a thing to the stupid, lying, fat clown and his maga weirdoes (who are worse), unless of course, it's in their favor.
Obviously, being convicted doesn't mean a thing to the stupid, lying, Leftist Democrats who come on this thread pretending that physically obstructing ICE agents from doing their legally mandated jobs is a felony!
 
This is a thread dealing with Trump's Second Term. We were discussing ICE and illegal immigration. Inserting J6 in there is random. And, I answered it, anyway.

Obviously, because several of those who threw rocks were arrested, tried and convicted. We know who they are and often know their affiliations.

Obviously, being convicted doesn't mean a thing to the stupid, lying, Leftist Democrats who come on this thread pretending that physically obstructing ICE agents from doing their legally mandated jobs is a felony!

Thanks for another stupid blanket statement to add to my collection.

I mean, can you prove that anyone in here is stupid or a liar or a dem or even a lefty?

FYI, my definition of a maga weirdo is anyone who believes that everything the fat clown says is the absolute, unvarnished truth.

And BTW (for future reference), I'm not a dem.
 
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This is a thread dealing with Trump's Second Term. We were discussing ICE and illegal immigration. Inserting J6 in there is random. And, I answered it, anyway.

Obviously, because several of those who threw rocks were arrested, tried and convicted. We know who they are and often know their affiliations.

Obviously, being convicted doesn't mean a thing to the stupid, lying, Leftist Democrats who come on this thread pretending that physically obstructing ICE agents from doing their legally mandated jobs is a felony!

Yup, including Ivan Harrison Hunter.
 
Empty and weak claim.
Funny, as that was an accurate Trump quote.
. Small, scattered fires (e.g., dumpsters, small barricades, etc.) set during nightly demonstrations.
Dumpster fires = war zone . . . bwahahahahahahahahahaha!!! To cultists maybe.
Chicago experienced major unrest and rioting beginning in late May 2020. Incidents of arson often occurred alongside looting, with businesses or structures being set on fire, particularly on the West and South Sides of the city, causing significant property damage. Chicago was a major contributor to the national tally of $1 billion to $2 billion in damaged caused by arson nationally.
I've lived in and around Chicago nearly my entire life. The only people who believe it's a war zone are deluded, credulous cultists. You need to consume more than Newsmax and Fox News.
These the allies of Democrats. This is how Democrats and the Left respond to those who disagrees with them
You need to consume more than Newsmax and Fox News.
 
No, that is not the issue I am talking about. In fact I have not the faintest idea why, given what I wrote, you might think it was. The issue is that the Republicans have repeatedly asserted that the object of the Democrats' insistence on extending the health care benefits that are the reason for the impasse in Congress is illegal immigration. I'm sure like all of us you have many things to say about many things, but for the moment I'm dealing with one lie at a time, and that's the one.
I rejoined this forum just a few weeks ago. I haven't taken the time to read all 800+ pages of this thread, so I may have missed some of your earlier comments. What I read was you casting the government shutdown on one side wanting health care funding and the other side lying about illegal immigration. My reply is based on the current protests over ICE.
 
Can you prove that these escalations weren't being committed by associates of Ivan Harrison Hunter, or even by Ivan himself?

One thing I hate more than anything else are stupid people who use blanket statements (without any proof) to prove their point.
You have to be particularly disingenuous to claim that all those protestors who are throwing rocks and committing other felonies against ICE are associates of a far-right wing individual. The fact that you keep bringing this up tells me that you don't have a rational basis for your position.
 
Funny, as that was an accurate Trump quote.
You mean, other than the words you put in front of and behind it. Almost like I was replying to what you wrote, instead of the Trump quote.
Dumpster fires = war zone . . . bwahahahahahahahahahaha!!! To cultists maybe.
You reveal what kind of person you are by cutting off everything else and pretending that Portland just had dumpster fires. Your position can't be taken seriously.
 
Portland saw over 100 consecutive nights of protests in 2020, frequently escalating into riots. This led to nearly 1,000 arrests in the summer of 2020 alone. Multiple attempts were made to start fires at the Mark O. Hatfield Federal Courthouse in downtown Portland, with federal officers inside. Fires were set at the Portland Police Association (PPA) building (the police union headquarters). Small, scattered fires (e.g., dumpsters, small barricades, etc.) set during nightly demonstrations.

Chicago experienced major unrest and rioting beginning in late May 2020. Incidents of arson often occurred alongside looting, with businesses or structures being set on fire, particularly on the West and South Sides of the city, causing significant property damage. Chicago was a major contributor to the national tally of $1 billion to $2 billion in damaged caused by arson nationally.

For larger context here, the BLM protests were overwhelmingly peaceful. Further, there were organized campaigns to deceive people -

Groups like the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) have documented organized disinformation campaigns aimed at spreading a “deliberate mischaracterization of groups or movements [involved in the protests], such as portraying activists who support Black Lives Matter as violent extremists or claiming that antifa is a terrorist organization coordinated or manipulated by nebulous external forces”

When it comes to the issue of violence, the major causes largely tended to involve deliberate tactics to escalate the situation. Shockingly enough, a lot of police don't take too kindly to people protesting how they choose to act or seeking to defund them (nevermind that Trump fairly consistently took real action to defund the police and Democrats largely did not, despite all the noise). On a more direct note, the heavy handed handling of the protests in Portland can be fairly blamed as the main reason for the severity and longevity of the problems there. Agents provocateur are worthy of mention, but are of far less direct note.

Proclaiming -

These the allies of Democrats. This is how Democrats and the Left respond to those who disagrees with them.

Is deeply, deeply misleading about cause, effect, and association at very best.
 
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You have to be particularly disingenuous to claim that all those protestors who are throwing rocks and committing other felonies against ICE are associates of a far-right wing individual. The fact that you keep bringing this up tells me that you don't have a rational basis for your position.

You have to be particularly disingenuous to believe none of them aren't associates of Ivan Harrison Hunter.

That and the use of blanket statements proves you have no credibility, but that's just my opinion.

Your mileage may vary of course.
 
I rejoined this forum just a few weeks ago. I haven't taken the time to read all 800+ pages of this thread, so I may have missed some of your earlier comments. What I read was you casting the government shutdown on one side wanting health care funding and the other side lying about illegal immigration. My reply is based on the current protests over ICE.

Actually, there's already an ongoing thread about that:

 
Barack Obama (2009-2017):

"If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan, period."
Trump:

July 19, 2020
“We’re signing a health care plan within two weeks, a full and complete health care plan that the Supreme Court decision on DACA gave me the right to do.”


Aug. 3, 2020:
“I do want to say that we’re going to be introducing a tremendous health care plan sometime prior – hopefully, prior to the end of the month. It’s just completed now. We’ll be doing, sometime during this month, the health care plan. And I think that’ll be before the end of the month. And I think it’ll be very impressive to a lot of people.”

Aug. 7, 2020
"Citing his two-week timeline once again, Trump said during a press briefing that he would pursue a major executive order in the next two weeks “requiring health insurance companies to cover all preexisting conditions for all customers.” Trump also said that covering preexisting conditions had “never been done before,” despite the ACA provisions outlining protections for people who have preexisting conditions being among the law’s most popular components."

Sept. 24, 2020
"Under the America First Healthcare Plan, we will ensure the highest standard of care anywhere in the world, cutting-edge treatments, state-of-the-art medicine, groundbreaking cures, and true health security for you and your loved ones. And we will do it rapidly, and it’s in very good order, and some of it has already been implemented."

Sept, 2024 debate
"I have concepts of a plan."

Yeah, go on and compare Obama to Trump on healthcare plan lying. Millions of people who had no insurance now have it under the ACA while Trump has "concepts" he'll release in his usual "two weeks". The man wants to repeal the ACA because his hatred of Obama is more important that Americans' lives. Petty little man-child.
 

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