The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VII

[Steve]

About to learn more about some of the conspiracy theories!

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I think the myriad conspiracy theories offered here, and their refutations, are more than adequate.

 

[jimbob]

No longer on moderated status,

Please play nicely

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jimbob

 

[Mojo]

About to learn more about some of the conspiracy theories!

Let us know if they've got any new ones.

 

[zooterkin]

Let us know if they've got any new ones.

It was only a short talk, so no new ones, and only a handful of the bumper selection here. I might chat to the speaker if I bump into him over the weekend. No mention of vanishing captains, mysterious medals or wheeled submarines.

 

[Mojo]

It was only a short talk, so no new ones, and only a handful of the bumper selection here. I might chat to the speaker if I bump into him over the weekend. No mention of vanishing captains, mysterious medals or wheeled submarines.

What about the bow-dissolving nuclear waste?

 

[catsmate]

Was there a submarine? Please tell me there was a submarine.....

 

[Helen]

There are rumours about recent Russian activity near the Estonia.

Russia suspected of using MS Estonia wreck for Baltic Sea espionage

German investigators suspect Russia may have used the wreck of the MS Estonia, which sank in 1994, for NATO-targeted underwater spying.

estonianworld.com

 

[zooterkin]

Was there a submarine? Please tell me there was a submarine.....

There were some illustrations of how the supposed collision might have happened.

 

[Helen]

There were some illustrations of how the supposed collision might have happened.

Looks convincing. So that's settled then.

 

[catsmate]

There are rumours about recent Russian activity near the Estonia.

Russia suspected of using MS Estonia wreck for Baltic Sea espionage

German investigators suspect Russia may have used the wreck of the MS Estonia, which sank in 1994, for NATO-targeted underwater spying.

estonianworld.com

Wrecks can be useful cover.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

There were some illustrations of how the supposed collision might have happened.

My theory is that they let Ringo sing and the Estonia was unlucky enough to be the closest thing they could crash into to end the pain.

 

[Vixen]

Was there a submarine? Please tell me there was a submarine.....

The preliminary report confirms all Swedish submarines were safely at their base or alternatively accounted for.

 

[Vixen]

There are rumours about recent Russian activity near the Estonia.

Russia suspected of using MS Estonia wreck for Baltic Sea espionage

German investigators suspect Russia may have used the wreck of the MS Estonia, which sank in 1994, for NATO-targeted underwater spying.

estonianworld.com

The Germans seem to have remained pretty sceptical about the accident. It didn't sign the Treaty despite being a key Baltic nation. As for the Russians using the wreck as a spy base, it seems to be 100% in the Russian DNA to do this.

Cue cries of, "Oh, but it's not possible to have done any secret dives because....because, the coastguard would have SEEN them!"

 

[Vixen]

I've recently returned from a holiday around Estonia and Latvia. Just before leaving Tallinn, I remembered to visit the MV Estonia memorial. The contraption is huge.

IMG_20251020_131908_HDR by Username Vixen, on Flickr

IMG_20251020_131929_HDR by Username Vixen, on Flickr

IMG_20251020_132017_HDR by Username Vixen, on Flickr

IMG_20251020_132924_HDR by Username Vixen, on Flickr

I don't think the victims of this tragedy have ever had justice. Just a small derisory sum of money to tide the survivors over if they were too traumatised to resume normal work (and there was only a tiny handful of them). The drowned victims' families have received no compensation other than the usual state benefits in such cases.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Wrecks can be useful cover.

Yes, British Military Intelligence had their Far East headquarters at Hong Kong hidden in the wreck of the Queen Elizabeth.

There was a documentary film about it.

I call bollocks on the whole story.

 

[Andy_Ross]

The Germans seem to have remained pretty sceptical about the accident. It didn't sign the Treaty despite being a key Baltic nation. As for the Russians using the wreck as a spy base, it seems to be 100% in the Russian DNA to do this.

Cue cries of, "Oh, but it's not possible to have done any secret dives because....because, the coastguard would have SEEN them!"

What are the Germans skeptical about?

How exactly do you think Russia would use it as a spy base?

If the Russians did it secretly how do people know about it?

 

[Vixen]

What are the Germans skeptical about?

How exactly do you think Russia would use it as a spy base?

If the Russians did it secretly how do people know about it?

I have no idea what they are sceptical about but they didn't sign the Estonia Treaty, which all of the other Baltic nations did and also the UK. It wouldn't have impinged on Meyer-Werft in any way as it was to do with grave peace, not liability issues. So think about why Germany declined to be a signatory to the Treaty and why the UK is, when it is nowhere near the Baltic Sea.

2. See this post here: https://internationalskeptics.com/forums/index.php?threads/the-sinking-of-ms-estonia-case-reopened-part-vii.368526/page-104#post-14691399:~:text=Add bookmark-,#4,127,-There are rumours

3. It is speculation, obvs. People find out afterwards. For example, in Tallinn during the cold war a 23-storey hotel, the Viru, was built strictly for foreign visitors only and that was the only place they were allowed to stay, and thus, included statesmen and politicians. Whilst it officially stated it had 22 floors, there was a secret 23rd floor, where the KGB did all of its extensive spying into the guests staying there. This was even after 1991 after the fall of the USSR and lasted until the whole bunch moved out at last circa 1995. It is now the KGB Museum and we were shown a huge wealth of cables, recording devices, cameras (actually from Zeiss factories in Germany as the Russian ones were crap) on a guided tour. Every single guest had their room arduously listened into in live time. It is the Russian way, so I would be quite unsurprised if they have also been skulking around the MV Estonia wreck for their own nefarious purposes. In fact, I would be shocked - SHOCKED!!! - if it hadn't.

This brings to mind the recent cargo ship Eagle prosecution in Finland for cutting key underwater cables with their anchor. The Captain was charged with aggravated willful sabotage...but the court was forced to throw the entire case out because it was successfully argued the incident was in international waters. So there's another get-out clause for the Russians, should they require one.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

... So think about why Germany declined to be a signatory to the Treaty and why the UK is, when it is nowhere near the Baltic Sea.

If I had a penny for every time you've said this, well I'd probably have about 10p.

Okay: why did Germany not sign? What is it that you keep insinuating but not saying?

 

[Mojo]

What are the Germans skeptical about?

Collisions with submarines making holes above the waterline, bombs blowing the bow doors off but still being observed inside the wreck, nuclear waste dissolving the bow, trucks full of drugs being pushed off the ship by the Mafia, doors being opened to let out cigarette smoke, the senior crew being disappeared, helicopter crew being compensated with medals to keep them quiet about the cover-up, the captain being shot, retrieval of sooper-seecrit briefcases, Brian Braidwood "famously" defusing the bomb on the Rainbow Warrior, Bill Clinton ordering the smuggling of Soviet-era military hardware in order to appear as a "Middle East Peacemaker extraordinaire"...

There's a lot for them to be skeptical about.

 

[Mojo]

In fact, I would be shocked - SHOCKED!!! - if it hadn't.

<fx Russian accent: Your information, madam.>