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General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 4

Not that anything anybody says will convince you, but...

Google AI:
Q. Is the government of Qatar pro-Hamas?
A. The government of Qatar is a key ally and financial backer of Hamas...

Q. Who owns Al Jazeera?
A. Al Jazeera Media Network is owned by the government of Qatar.

QED
AI has a sycophancy problem. It will prioritise being helpful over being factual. So no, I don't accept your argument from AI.

In this case, however, you're right - Al Jazeera is owned by Qatar, and Qatar does support Hamas. Al Jazeera, however, was founded to be independent of government and political interests and has a Code of Ethics which prioritises journalistic integrity. Unlike Arutz Sheva which states up front its editorial policy of promoting religious Zionism. This is what makes Al Jazeera one of the best and most respected sources of news in the Arab world.

See what happens when you actually look beyond what the AI says? So many people treat AI as an oracle. Try this one: Go to your favourite AI (I just tested this on ChatGPT) and ask it "What would happen if you put the Earth in a vacuum?"
 
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Uh, yeah....


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Here's the IDF boundary markers along the new Gaza ceasefire "Yellow lines" ----

FWIW this is the original report
The major argument seems to be that Al jazeera does not propagate Israeli propaganda. If you substitute Israeli government / IDF for Hamas and Israeli media organisations for Al Jazeera, you get the same conclusions. Israeli media broadcasts videos made by IDF of combat. They co-ordinate with the IDF on reporting, they present an Israeli government narrative, they interview Israeli government officials. Many Israeli journalists are or have been members of the IDF.

This report is being presented without criticism or clear attribution by multiple Israeli media sources without making it clear it is from an Israeli government source. exactly what they are criticising Al Jazeera for doing.
The Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center (ITIC) was established in 2001 as part of the Israel Intelligence Heritage and Commemoration Center, the government institution for commemorating the legacy of the Israeli intelligence community, located at Glilot in central Israel. The ITIC collects and analyzes the information used in its reports, studies and bulletins related to terrorism and intelligence, and guarantees the quality and reliability of its publications.
 
AI has a sycophancy problem. It will prioritise being helpful over being factual. So no, I don't accept your argument from AI.
It's always entertaining to watch the Arthwollibot rationalize away evidence that disconfirms its worldview.
 
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According to the propaganda outlet Arutz Sheva, sure. We've already established Arutz Sheva's foundation in religious Zionism. And yet they're your go-to source for information.
I make it a habit of perusing the Israeli press, all of it. Some in Hebrew, some in Russian, some in English, and some in Arabic (translated by AI).
Of course, Russian is also one of the primary languages spoken/read in Israel, considering the rather large 15% percentage of the population that prefers their native tongue.

Here is the entire article INN offered regarding the placement of physical boundary markers:

As part of the ceasefire agreement and in accordance with the directive of the political echelon, IDF troops under the Southern Command have begun marking the Yellow Line in the Gaza Strip, which marks the area over which IDF forces hold control, to establish tactical clarity on the ground.

The marking consists of a concrete barrier with a pole painted yellow, standing 3.5 meters high.


The concrete barriers are being placed approximately every 200 meters, with adjustments made based on terrain conditions between each marker. The marking process will continue in the coming period.

What, pray tell, is your complaint about that dispatch being propaganda?

I hope you don't mind if I dismiss your obvious religious propaganda with disdain.
I do mind, because you are dismissing their factual reporting as invalid merely because your position is that "Religious Zionism" is somehow inherently evil (or deserving of disdain, just because..)

Did you know that Arutz Sheva broadcasts in three languages? The first two are obviously Hebrew and English, but do you know what the third is? Russian. Isn't that interesting?
Not sure why it's "interesting" with 15% of the population of the country being native Russian-speakers.
(Over a million came pouring into the country during the 1990's, as the Soviet Union collapsed and Jews were allowed to leave)

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planigale notes that the INN article offered the information about HAMAS links to alJazeera "without criticism or clear attribution" -- that not accurate, because in the second paragraph of the story, the original source is mentioned.

In today's bizarre 'media' environment, it behooves all of us to dig a bit deeper on what's presented, by every outlet.
That is going to become even a bigger problem of reliability, trustworthiness, accuracy and 'spin' as more and more news organizations simply regurgitate AI-generated material without attribution.

Also, I found her linking to massacres by Israel upon Arabs to be disingenious.
Nearly all the references were from the previous century. And occurred during wartime, not out of the clear blue sky.
 
I make it a habit of perusing the Israeli press, all of it.
Then why do you never link to anything but religious Zionist sources?

What, pray tell, is your complaint about that dispatch being propaganda?
That particular quote? Nothing. But you cherrypicked that quote to be as mundane as possible.

I do mind, because you are dismissing their factual reporting as invalid merely because your position is that "Religious Zionism" is somehow inherently evil (or deserving of disdain, just because..)
It is. Just like all other forms of religious propaganda, regardless of the particular religion they are endorsing. I'm equally disdainful of Christian, Muslim, or Hindu propaganda. All religion is bunk, and when it intersects with politics and conflict, it's extremely dangerous.
 
I make references to many sources of news reports. For instance, I just used 972Mag as a link recently, but Jpost is more common (are you making a claim that venerated media outlet is 'religious propaganda'?)
Just because the Israel National(ist) News is a source, doesn't mean the story is inaccurate or fails on its' reported information.

When presenting that information regarding the placement of Yellow Line markers, I cherrypicked? How so? The three paragraphs I offered in bold/italics were the entirety of the article. I cannot see how the IsraelNationalNews byline would make any difference about the nature of the facts.
 
In case anyone has any doubts regarding the actions that the State of Israel will continue to take against terrorists, even during a 'ceasefire' (in this case, with Lebanon) --

ByeBye, Ahmad Karbala, scumbag.

The IDF will continue to operate to remove any threat to the State of Israel.
Thank you for your continued attention to this matter.
 
In case anyone has any doubts regarding the actions that the State of Israel will continue to take against terrorists, even during a 'ceasefire' (in this case, with Lebanon) --

ByeBye, Ahmad Karbala, scumbag.

The IDF will continue to operate to remove any threat to the State of Israel.
Thank you for your continued attention to this matter.
So Israel will breach its agreed cease fire commitments? It cannot be relied on to abide by its word`?

No one is surprised by this.
 
I make references to many sources of news reports. For instance, I just used 972Mag as a link recently, but Jpost is more common (are you making a claim that venerated media outlet is 'religious propaganda'?)
Just because the Israel National(ist) News is a source, doesn't mean the story is inaccurate or fails on its' reported information.

When presenting that information regarding the placement of Yellow Line markers, I cherrypicked? How so? The three paragraphs I offered in bold/italics were the entirety of the article. I cannot see how the IsraelNationalNews byline would make any difference about the nature of the facts.
Is the yellow line the agreed by partition line? Or is it in advance of the withdrawal line? Is the IDF saying that Palestinians cannot go beyond limits that IDF withdrew from, because it might threaten the IDF, because they are proximate to the IDF but within Palestinian territory. The yellow line needs to be the withdrawal line with the IDF behind that not in advance.
 
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ICJ rules that Israel has been breaching international humanitarian law and as occupying power has the obligation to ensure the delivery of humanitarian aid and medical care.

The court on Wednesday rejected Israeli and US arguments, and unanimously held that Israel as an occupying power is required to fulfil its obligations under international humanitarian law to ensure that Palestinians have essential supplies of daily life including food, medical supplies and shelter.

It also ruled by ten votes to one that Israel must agree to and facilitate by all means at its disposal relief schemes for the people of Gaza and not impede them.

"As the occupying Power, Israel’s obligation under the first paragraph of Article 59 to agree to and facilitate relief schemes if the local population is inadequately supplied is unconditional," it said.

"The occupying Power may never invoke reasons of security to justify the general suspension of all humanitarian activities in an occupied territory."

It further stated that Israel must respect the right of Palestinian detainees to be visited by the International Committee of the Red Cross, noting that, as argued by the UK, "Israel has denied the ICRC access to Palestinian detainees since 7 October 2023."

The court added, by ten votes to one, that Israel must cooperate in good faith with the UN, including Unrwa, and to respect and ensure respect for the privileges and immunites accorded to the UN's premises and officials by the UN Charter and Article II of the Convention on the Privileges and Immunities of the United Nations.
 
It pays to kill Jews.


planigale, BTW, it must be recalled that the events of 10/7/23 occurred during a 'ceasefire' (truce) that HAMAS had agreed to.
 
...Before immediately posting from Arutz Sheva again.

I intend to post that source whenever it provides information that is relevant to the discussions here.

As for the ICJ, their ruling is really appropriate for tossing into the trash.

 
It pays to kill Jews.


planigale, BTW, it must be recalled that the events of 10/7/23 occurred during a 'ceasefire' (truce) that HAMAS had agreed to.
Just because a right wing nationalist / racist terms Palestinians terrorists doesn't mean they are terrorists. Political prisoners imprisoned for their struggle to obtain equal rights and national independence aren't terrorists.
 
Terrorist or not, people have a right to humane treatment when held and legal representation.
It's the minimum requirement if you want to think of your country as lawful.
 
Just because a right wing nationalist / racist terms Palestinians terrorists doesn't mean they are terrorists. Political prisoners imprisoned for their struggle to obtain equal rights and national independence aren't terrorists.
Just because they kill Jews, doesn't make them bad people, I mean, they are getting paid for doing that, and then they are released when MORE Jews are killed. Overall, their struggle is so very terrific, not terrorists at all.

Here are just a few of these shining examples of "political prisoners" who are just trying to obtain equal rights and national independence.
  • Imad Qawasmeh, 52 (Hamas) – convicted for the 2004 Beersheva bus bombing that killed 16 Israelis
  • Qassem Aref Khalil al-Asafreh, 36 (Hamas) – jailed for 2019 stabbing murder of yeshivah student Dvir Sorek
  • Muhammad Aref Samhan, 55 (Fatah/Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades) – responsible for 2003 Jerusalem bus bombing killing 23
  • Ibrahim Muhammad al-Raai, 46 (Fatah/Tanzim) – responsible for 2006 Nablus bombing and multiple shooting attacks
  • Raad Abd al-Aziz, 45 (Fatah) – convicted of murder, attempted murder, and weapons offenses
 
I intend to post that source whenever it provides information that is relevant to the discussions here.
Of course you do. Because you're a propagandist just like they are.

ETA: The Palestinian Authority Martyrs Fund has been around since the 60s, and has always been referred to as "pay to slay" by its critics. You posting about it here now, as though it's news, is pure propaganda.
 
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