Does 'rape culture' accurately describe (many) societies?

Poem said:
The assumption that such material is harmful, especially to children, has been held by the majority of humanity since forever.
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Show me the evidence of this, because I don't think it's true. We have written records from ancient Egypt, ancient Greece, ancient Rome, ancient China, medieval Europe, concerning social issues of their times. There should be plenty of surviving passages of politicians or philosophers rail against the evil of teenagers seeing erotic statues or erotic mosaics, cautions to adults about making sure no teenagers witness their liaisons, law cases involving charges of showing erotic art to teens, architectural features that isolate teens away from adult bedrooms and baths, and other historical and archaeological evidence. Where in the Law Code of Hammurabi is teens (or anyone) seeing porn or for that matter making porn addressed?

The very idea of teens past puberty (fourteen and older) being a separate category of human with different rights than "adults" is a modern innovation. Most human civilizations inducted teen boys straight into the military and made teen girls eligible for (not always voluntary) marriage.

Certain more recent societies have indeed regarded all open depiction and discussion of sex as harmful especially to children. Those same societies considered working in coal mines and factories to be perfectly okay for children, so why should I care about their opinions? "Nineteenth century Christian Europeans and some twentieth century American Christians" do not constitute the majority of humanity since forever.
 
Darat said:
OK. I was wondering if that result may be like the claim that logging into Pornhub would have you presented with fictional violent porn and when I went and looked it wasn't.
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Poem said:
The study that found 1 in 8 titles violent (April 2021- Clare McGlynn and Fiona Vera-Gray) hasn't been challenged here as far as I am aware.
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What is available in a content library is a different thing from what content is presented.

If a radio DJ finds 1 in 8 songs in his music library are 90s ska (the work of a very zealous ska fan) that does not mean people will be hearing ska every time they tune into the station. The DJ may not even play any ska at all unless someone calls in a request.

Having skimmed the study, what it actually found was that 1 in 8 videos with descriptive titles had titles that implied violence/incest. It doesn't sound like anyone checked if the content matched the titles. I wouldn't be surprised if this was partially an effect of keyword spamming.

It does sound like they were trying to get samples of what's served up on landing pages, but without knowing how the sites they were testing construct a landing page with minimal info, it's at least possible that they were just unlucky enough to have the site build it that way and then keep doing the same thing for the duration of the study. It didn't sound like they were using a vpn to approach from random IPs for example; they described running a web crawler in "(...) a process (...) that enabled us to collect the data without interacting with the site, as any interaction would notify the site’s algorithms of our location and that we were the same user."
 
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Skeptical Greg said:
What is correct, is that what I think is not really important, and neither is what you think.
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Answer the question. I have provided masses of evidence of the harms of porn and yet you say I have not provided any evidence.
 
I just want to see there is actual evidence that porn is harmful to view. If there is good evidence for the claim then maybe we should ban it. I just don't believe there is.

This seems to be a presumption. And that's not enough. The Bible actually tells parents to beat their children. And to stone disobedient children. Isn't that more harmful to children than images of penises and vaginas?
 
Lithrael said:
Having skimmed the study, what it actually found was that 1 in 8 videos with descriptive titles had titles that implied violence/incest. It doesn't sound like anyone checked if the content matched the titles. I wouldn't be surprised if this was partially an effect of keyword spamming.
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i would be confident that incest is doing the heavy lifting there. additionally, all of the professionally produced porn on the sites are obviously not actually incest or violent, so you can kind of scrap those. simple fact is a vast majority the videos are fairly standsrd sex videos between a man and a woman with a click bait title.

it’s a long way of saying the 1 in 8 figure wouldn’t hold up if you were doing a study to examine actual content.
 
From the search bar on both of the "13 year old" accounts, by the way nothing shows up until you start to type, you can see the first letter I entered:

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I suppose I could do a-to-z, to check to see if any letter shows anything like the Global report shows but is it worth it as we can see that Tiktok has changed it no longer throws out search suggestions unless you start to type something. I've just tried "porn" and this is what it shows:

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As you can see nothing is shown, if you click on return you get this:

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I get the exact same result if I type in "sex" and quite a few other words that are usually related to pornography, all brought back "no results found". Kids are really going to have to do some extensive or unusual searching to find anything pornographic if it exists on TikTok.
 
Poem said:
Answer the question.
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I don't think any of us should be answering your question until you answer ours.

Poem said:
The assumption that such material is harmful, especially to children, has been held by the majority of humanity since forever.
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The assumption that the earth was the centre of the universe has been held by the majority of humanity since forever too. And it was wrong. This is not an answer to the question. We don't want assumptions, we want evidence.
 
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