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The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VII

There is no NHS category beyond 'obese'
Why is that your standard? There are categories of obesity. If the "Russian giant" Voronin were actually only of average height he would have a BMI around 35, putting him at the top end of Stage 1 (of 3) of obesity.

Also, why does any of this matter in the slightest?
 
Do you have a source for this, as I can find no reference to my calling him 'morbidly obese’
Do you have a source for any of your claims regarding Voronin’s physicsl condition, whatever they may be? Nelson is clearly not authoritative for the relevant facts, and you’ve provided us with nothing else besides distraction.
 
Do you have a source for any of your claims regarding Voronin’s physicsl condition, whatever they may be? Nelson is clearly not authoritative for the relevant facts, and you’ve provided us with nothing else besides distraction.
Yes, I have seen it stated in more than one place. The salient point is, he was obese by any standard, assuming he's under 6'3", had a fractured spine, had to hop on one leg, yet he, his 15-yr-old son who thought he'd fractured his arm and grandad, all managed to survive and they were in the same vicinity as the senior crew in terms of cabin quarters. The grandfather seems to have been hanging onto a rope outside of the raft until morning and the kid hoisted up after several abortive and one fatal attempt, by Silja Europa crew, onto its deck. As Eleanor Roosevelt famously said, "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."
 
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From AI overview:

AI Overview



The average weight of an adult male depends heavily on location, with the average male in the United States weighing about
199.8 pounds (90.6 kg), while the world average for adult males is around 136.7 pounds (62 kg). Other factors like age, height, ethnicity, and frame size also influence an individual's average weight, which is different from a person's healthy weight.


Alexander Voronin was 45lbs or apx three stone greater than the average US male (who in photos seem large to my eyes), and almost seven stone heavier than the world average of 136.7lbs, so it is quite fair to describe him as grossly obese, rather than just obese, as would describe the regular tubby person one might meet in the supermarket. I think in some UK towns two-thirds of Brits are technically obese.
 
Yes, I have seen it stated in more than one place. The salient point is, he was obese by any standard, assuming he's under 6'3",
And assuming he is 245lbs, something which you've yet to provide any solid evidence for.


had a fractured spine, had to hop on one leg, yet he, his 15-yr-old son who thought he'd fractured his arm and grandad, all managed to survive and they were in the same vicinity as the senior crew in terms of cabin quarters. The grandfather seems to have been hanging onto a rope outside of the raft until morning and the kid hoisted up after several abortive and one fatal attempt, by Silja Europa crew, onto its deck.
Is this jumbled train of thought supposed to lead to some sort of conclusion?
 
So I want to understand why the hole in the hull as reported and filmed by at least two different film crews wasn't mentioned by the JAIC, and if the hole was indeed caused by a rocky outcrop after the sinking and had nothing at all to do with the sinking, I want to understand how come it hasn't been explained properly before, and to understand the exact mechanism of how this happened.
It wasn't visible when the report was wreitten. It only became apparent after the ship settled and rolled revealing the hole.
It was caused by a ship of 15,598 Gross Tonnage and 3,006 tons Deadweight and hull plating of just 15mm thickness landing on a rocky seabed.

What is the mystery?

Compared to the size and weight of the ship the hull plating is like paper compared to your weight.
 
It wasn't visible when the report was wreitten. It only became apparent after the ship settled and rolled revealing the hole.
It was caused by a ship of 15,598 Gross Tonnage and 3,006 tons Deadweight and hull plating of just 15mm thickness landing on a rocky seabed.

What is the mystery?

Compared to the size and weight of the ship the hull plating is like paper compared to your weight.
I do hope you're not suggesting Vixen is morbidly obese...


:duck:
 
all managed to survive and they were in the same vicinity as the senior crew in terms of cabin quarters.
What does the location of their cabins have to do with their survival compared to the senior crew?

Passengers would be directed to the lifeboats and rafts to leave the ship immediately, senior crew would not be leaving until their duties were complete. They would not be in their cabins or getting in to lifeboats.
 
And assuming he is 245lbs, something which you've yet to provide any solid evidence for.



Is this jumbled train of thought supposed to lead to some sort of conclusion?
The other Estonian crew/staff listed as survivors initially, apart from Piht, included the IVth Officer navigator, the Chief Engineer, the Chief Doctor plus the bar manager and a couple of cruise entertainers. So why wouldn't they have also escaped, given they would know better than anyone how to handle a life raft and put on a life vest, plus like the Deck 0 crew, would have had their immersion costumes handy, plus hand held devices powerful enough to communicate. Official number of survivors: 137, of which, number of Crew: 51. The Estonians were sent a fax listing the officers and show entertainers as survivors. These officers were billeted nearby the Voronins.

 
So I want to understand why the hole in the hull as reported and filmed by at least two different film crews wasn't mentioned by the JAIC...
Because the wreck shifted in the meantime to reveal the hole.

...and if the hole was indeed caused by a rocky outcrop after the sinking and had nothing at all to do with the sinking, I want to understand how come it hasn't been explained properly before...
Because it wasn't visible when the early investigators did their work. It was underneath the ship where they either couldn't or didn't want to send divers. Why wouldn't they want to send divers into tight spaces under a sunken ship? Because wrecks are known to shift.

...and to understand the exact mechanism of how this happened, if true.
When ships hit rocks, the rocks tend to tear holes in the hull.

Your confusion isn't the flex you think it is. Instead of trying to identify some smoking gun, all you're displaying is how little you know about ships.
 
Because the wreck shifted in the meantime to reveal the hole.


Because it wasn't visible when the early investigators did their work. It was underneath the ship where they either couldn't or didn't want to send divers. Why wouldn't they want to send divers into tight spaces under a sunken ship? Because wrecks are known to shift.


When ships hit rocks, the rocks tend to tear holes in the hull.

Your confusion isn't the flex you think it is. Instead of trying to identify some smoking gun, all you're displaying is how little you know about ships.
I am not at all confused. What you are doing is simply providing 'alternative explanations'. Anyone can do that.
 
I am not at all confused. What you are doing is simply providing 'alternative explanations'. Anyone can do that.

No. What he's doing is providing the explanation which best fits the actual evidence (and lack of evidence) in this case.

As I said before: an "alternative explanation" is that a UFO swooped down from outer space and smashed into the hull of the ship......
 

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