The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VII

Vixen said:
From Post no. 2865:

I can confirm the correct translation from the German is, 'Spacecraft'.



Google translate Finnish - English:

In June 2002, the German Süddeutsche Zeitung published an article about the Estonia and Voronin's possible role in secret arms deals. Voronin was allegedly involved in the smuggling of Soviet space technology and weapons.

Aleksander Voronin was given the article to read, but never had time to comment on it in public, as he died unexpectedly of a stroke two weeks after the magazine's publication.
Click to expand...
The word 'spacecraft' still doesn't appear in that text, in any language.
 
Last edited:
Vixen said:
Look, it was claimed Voronin variously owned a shop or association - or perhaps some special interest group - called 'Spacecraft' or 'Kosmos' . In the German newspaper Rabe claims he was working for a US aerospace company with Pentagon dealings.
Click to expand...
'Kosmos' is not Estonian for 'spacecraft'. 'Kosmoselaev' is Estonian for 'spacecraft'. 'Kosmos' is Estonian for 'space'
 
Vixen said:
It must be. But wait, according to Drew Wilson, one of the Rockwater divers, a 'John Coe' said there was a rumour the Swedish police had a belief the briefcase was associated with the 'Russian mafia'.
Click to expand...
So according to someone, someone else said there was a rumour that someone had a belief ...

Finally, the smoking gun we've all been waiting for! ;)
 
Vixen said:
So it looks like Bollyn translated it from the Estonian, which Voronin was.
Click to expand...
Bollyn didn't mention spacecraft. He wrote:
Christopher Bollyn said:
Rabe explains how divers hired by the Swedish government spent hours breaking into cabins frantically searching for a black attaché case carried by a Russian space technology dealer, Aleksandr Voronin.

Voronin owned a company in Tallinn called "Kosmos Association" while his brother, Valeri, had a similar company in Moscow that traded weapons and space technology.
Click to expand...

You interpreted that to mean spacecraft:
Vixen said:
Might I be so bold as to jump six steps ahead so as to save wasting any further bandwidth?



Voronin dealt in space craft. That is what the divers were interested in. Who cares if this was software or hardware?
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Vixen said:
But you did request the audio of the divers, which I provided you.
Click to expand...
Yes, I did, and yes you did, which I appreciate, and which I thanked you for at the time. But what interested me then, and what continues to interest me, is whether your characterization of your own sources is accurate. In that instance, you had suggested that the video (not just the audio) supplied supported the idea that the divers were actively looking for the briefcase, when it in fact does no such thing.
 
Last edited:
Reformed Offlian said:
Yes, I did, and yes you did, which I appreciate, and which I thanked you for at the time. But what interested me then, and what continues to interest me, is whether your characterization of your own sources is accurate. In that instance, you had suggested that the video (not just the audio) supplied supported the idea that the divers were actively looking for the briefcase, when it in fact does no such thing.
Click to expand...
Who knows what the police rationale is as they tend to be insular and keep information to themself. But there did seem to be two cabins they were particularly interested in, and why not Piht's as he was a key personnel, and a lady called Susanna Pundi. When you realise the sheer number of luggage and bags lying around it is curious they were interested in that one, given it was in Piht's designated cabin. Why they were interested in Piht and put out an International Warrant for him is something people will speculate about. Rabe felt confident enough to tell the South German newspaper that Voronin was some kind of operative. Why? I don't know. I wouldn't know who her source was.
 
Vixen said:
Who knows what the police rationale is as they tend to be insular and keep information to themself. But there did seem to be two cabins they were particularly interested in, and why not Piht's as he was a key personnel, and a lady called Susanna Pundi. When you realise the sheer number of luggage and bags lying around it is curious they were interested in that one, given it was in Piht's designated cabin. Why they were interested in Piht and put out an International Warrant for him is something people will speculate about. Rabe felt confident enough to tell the South German newspaper that Voronin was some kind of operative. Why? I don't know. I wouldn't know who her source was.
Click to expand...
Meaningless arse covering twaddle.
 
Vixen said:
Who knows what the police rationale is as they tend to be insular and keep information to themself. But there did seem to be two cabins they were particularly interested in, and why not Piht's as he was a key personnel, and a lady called Susanna Pundi. When you realise the sheer number of luggage and bags lying around it is curious they were interested in that one, given it was in Piht's designated cabin. Why they were interested in Piht and put out an International Warrant for him is something people will speculate about. Rabe felt confident enough to tell the South German newspaper that Voronin was some kind of operative. Why? I don't know. I wouldn't know who her source was.
Click to expand...
None of this comments on what appeared (and did not appear) in the video you provided.
 
Vixen said:
Judging by your own standards I see.
Click to expand...
I know you are but what am I? Really?

YOU made claims Vixen, and when we pressed you for evidence of those claims YOU attempted to provide distractions you hoped were close enough to your claim we would leave those questions alone, and when we didn't and pressed YOU have started to half-heartedly walk back your claims with arse-covering language and statements that you're only reporting what others say.


So why don't you finally pony up and outline what YOU think happened. Not what Jutta Rabe says, not what newspapers reported, not what secret divers maybe said, YOU. Tell us what happened and why the Estonia sunk, because you're so sure that it wasn't what the JAIC said. So go on, dazzle us all with your insight.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom