Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

smartcooky said:
:offtopic
There is no ethnic cleansing happening in Gaza. That is a frauduent claim being propagandized by biased media. There are, however, terrorist actions still being perpetrated by Hamas, and have been ever since October 7, 2023 - the terrorist action that kicked all this off. People like you seem to always conveniently forget that.
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:rolleyes:
smartcooky said:
Which ones?
1. The very reasonable expression of hate for misogynists?
2. Stating correctly that bunch of protesters peeing in the street smell bad?
3. Giving perfectly reasonable advice to women being harassed in the women's toilets by men, to make noise to gain attention, then call the police, and as a last resort "punch them in the balls" to make them leave?

Which of these actions is "atrocious", and why?
Why are trans activists carrying placards imploring people to kill other people not "atrocious" actions, and why do they get a free pass while Linehan gets arrested by armed Police?
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You appear to be in denial about the actions of one of your fellow transphones.
 
Ziggurat said:
Who exactly is "they"? You've never actually given a workable answer to that. You've appealed to GRCs, but those are not actually workable. Isla Bryson could get a GRC.
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I think you have me confused with someone else, maybe Ivor? I think GRCs are pointless.
 
Thermal said:
I think you have me confused with someone else, maybe Ivor? I think GRCs are pointless.
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Then I really have no idea who "they" is. Does Bryson belong in the women's bathroom? Does Misty Hill? Who decides? How can I tell where someone who looks biologically male belongs?
 
catsmate said:
Is there a point in this non sequitur?
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Praying silently can get you arrested in the UK. I'm wondering if you think that's also atrocious behavior, and where Linehan's tweets rate relative to silent prayer.
 
Thermal said:
Probably a lot of truth here. My only quibble is that I don't see it as extending a privilege, but as acknowledging that it's where they should be. I know that gets into the whole "but it's *not* where they *should* be" argument, but that's... the whole argument.
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No.

That's the summary of the claim. The whole argument supporting the claim has been presented at length and in detail more than once. You've acknowledged most (all?) of the elements of the full argument more than once. Don't now try to pretend that this argument doesn't exist. It would be more accurate to say that your whole argument for where they should be is that it's where they should be.
 
Thermal said:
May I see your badge, Mr Penis Policeman?
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Hi there! I'm the owner/manager of this establishment. Get out and stay out.

Hi there! I'm a woman in a women's restroom. Get out and stay out.

Hi there! I'm a man outside a woman's restroom. Get out and stay out.

Also note that observing a literal penis is not necessary for policing this access. Non-passing males are immediately identifiable by secondary sex characteristics, by definition.

ETA: Actually, there's a much pithier answer to this question: homo igitur magistratus sum

And let's not overlook the classics:
 
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theprestige said:
No.

That's the summary of the claim. The whole argument supporting the claim has been presented at length and in detail more than once. You've acknowledged most (all?) of the elements of the full argument more than once. Don't now try to pretend that this argument doesn't exist. It would be more accurate to say that your whole argument for where they should be is that it's where they should be.
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And as I've also acknowledged more than once, I'm still conflicted about it, and I truly don't think that is as far beyond your (or anyone elses) ken as you like to keep claiming.

I want women to feel safe and comfortable. I also want transwomen to be respected and afforded the dignity of using facilities that feel as natural to them as a men's room feels to me. We've been all over the available data about the fear mongering that hordes of Isla Brysons will be hiding in every stall. It's not happening.

So does it come down to what feels right? I don't think that's how we base our concept of 'rights'. We try them on our principles, and on that metric, trans rights seem to be winning, as uncomfortable as it feels. Are we serious, or do we want to say "sure, we respect trans people... as long as we don't have to put our money where our mouths are"?
 
theprestige said:
Hi there! I'm the owner/manager of this establishment. Get out and stay out.

Hi there! I'm a woman in a women's restroom. Get out and stay out.

Hi there! I'm a man outside a woman's restroom. Get out and stay out.
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*black guys from the Philly Starbucks raise their fingers*
 
catsmate said:
You don't seem to want to educate your self about the actual facts of the case. Let me give you a few starters.
1. Linehan was arrested by armed police because they were operating at an airport.
2. Linehan's actions go far, far, beyond that tweet. He carried out a relentless, long term, campaign of harassment against a trans teenager, including confronting her in public, assaulting her, damaging her phone and alleging she engaged in child sexual exploitation.

But then it seems you don't care about the harassment of a woman if she doesn't pass you tests for sufficient femininity.
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The first point is technically correct. It is SOP to arrest suspects flying in from abroad as they get off the plane, and policemen at the airport are normally armed. Why five? Maybe they all wanted in on the act and couldn't agree to toss for it so they all went.

The second point is disputed, but irrelevant. Linehan was returning to England in connection with legal proceedings that started today. It is not normal or justified to arrest someone when he steps off the plane for alleged offences he has already been charged with and in relation to which he is travelling to attend court. The arrest being discussed was entirely related to these three tweets.

Arresting anyone for these tweets is ludicrous, and in the context that trans-identifying men and their allies are tweeting absolutely sickening threats on a daily basis which go unactioned, a reflection of gross double standards and the extent to which the police are acting as the enforcement arm of the trans activist movement.

In my opinion the court case that began today is another example of exactly the same thing.
 
Thermal said:
I want women to feel safe and comfortable. I also want transwomen to be respected and afforded the dignity of using facilities that feel as natural to them as a men's room feels to me.
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And when these two goals are incompatible?
Thermal said:
We've been all over the available data about the fear mongering that hordes of Isla Brysons will be hiding in every stall. It's not happening.
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Hordes of Brysons? Nobody ever made that claim. But Bryson does exist.

And Misty Hill goes into the women's bathroom. I think a lot of women would feel unsafe and uncomfortable with Hill sharing a bathroom with them. How do you want to handle that?
Thermal said:
So does it come down to what feels right? I don't think that's how we base our concept of 'rights'. We try them on our principles, and on that metric, trans rights seem to be winning, as uncomfortable as it feels.
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Which rights, whose principles are we talking about here, and how are they winning?
Thermal said:
Are we serious, or do we want to say "sure, we respect trans people... as long as we don't have to put our money where our mouths are"?
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You seem to want to say, "Sure, I want women to feel safe and comfortable... as long as I don't have to put my money where my mouth is."
 
Ziggurat said:
That won't be the case forever. And then what?
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Beats me. My guess is he will have dropped the pretense of being trans (the prison doesn't buy it) and being in the UK, he doesn't have the option anyway.

He was far more a threat when living cis anyway, when he actually committed his crimes.

How do you rationalize being afraid of what he could theoretically do as a transwoman against what you know damn right well he did as a cis man? Aren't his actions as a cis guy the much more massive threat? Maybe we should have a tattoo on his face that says "WARNING: RAPIST"? Perhaps in an eye-catching shade of red?
 
Ziggurat said:
You seem to want to say, "Sure, I want women to feel safe and comfortable... as long as I don't have to put my money where my mouth is."
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Right. So I look at my What Would Skeptics Do? silicone bracelet, and consult the available data and criticize the assumptions. Guess where that keeps leaving me?
 
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