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The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VII

A nanometre is a valid unit of measurement...
(specifically one billionth of a metre in length)

A 'nano-millimetre' is not- thats a unit of Vixenism...
(specifically one length of whatever Vixen deems it to be- this week..)
Sadly, SpitfireIX didn't get that I was JOKING. (As in the context, the forensic scientists with engineering background knew how to measure a left behind footprint with impressive accuracy.)
 
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Isn't a nanometer a machine for measuring the number of nans present? ;)
Indeed, but you pronounce it nanometer instead of nanometer. Similarly, a manometer is the correct name for a device that measures fluid pressure (as in sphygmomanometer for blood pressure). But of course the running joke is to point it at a male coworker and frob the device to pretend to indicate how much of a man he is.
 
"I was joking," doesn't work for DJT, what makes you think it will work for you? (Hint: it doesn't.)
Here's the context: "Measured by forensic engineering draughtsmen (=technical drawing experts) to the smallest nano-millimetre, complete with his hammer toe thrown in! " So you can see the intended exaggeration, given it was already stated to be the smallest millimetre. Jeez, even emphasising one's point to help A.N. Other to understand, still doesn't strike home.
 
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But anyhow..... back to our now-redundant discussion about the Baltic RORO ferry which sank because it sailed full-on into a storm and its badly-designed and poorly-maintained bow visor lock finally (cumulatively) failed......
 
But anyhow..... back to our now-redundant discussion about the Baltic RORO ferry which sank because it sailed full-on into a storm and its badly-designed and poorly-maintained bow visor lock finally (cumulatively) failed......
Well its basically pretty much that the Baltic RORO ferry sank because it sailed full-on into a storm and its badly-designed and poorly-maintained bow visor lock finally (cumulatively) failed......
 
AIUI the bridge was like a pilots cockpit: authorised personnel only. The authorised personnel, in addition, are identified by the stripes on their uniform, so even if they take off their jacket or hat, there's an insignia on the shirt. Here's Capn Mäkelä's unform from the Silja Europa, now preserved as a museum piece at Turku's maritime museum (the Forum Marinum):

Capt. Makela's M/R Europa Cabin by Username Vixen, on Flickr
Nope. This is utter nonsense as anyone remotely connected to or involved in commercial shipping could tell you.
 
its badly-designed and poorly-maintained bow visor lock finally (cumulatively) failed......
And we again emphasize that this is not to accuse Meyer Werft of incompetence, dereliction, or negligence. Some properties of designs that bear on safety and effectiveness are inherent. Some are parasitic. Others are combinatorial. Clamshell designs for ferry doors are fail-safe, whereas visor designs are not. Parasitic properties would include the notion that no kind of bow door can exist without affecting the structural integrity of the hull. Combinatorial design factors are usually secondary factors that we manipulate as a system to improve overall desirability, but which may present their own failure modes.

For years, airliner overwing exits were "plug" doors, meaning that the bevel of the door frame prevented inadvertent opening in flight. If the inside and outside air pressure were too different, the greater indoor pressure would simply force the door harder into its frame, seating it more firmly. It would have been physically impossible for some deranged passenger to open the door in flight and depressurize the airplane. It simply would have taken superhuman strength to pull against all that pressure. Similarly clamshell doors are forced tighter together by wave action and so would retain watertight integrity even if elements of the mechanical locks failed. Not so a visor design, which requires the locking mechanisms to absorb the wave loads. If the locks fail, the visor loses its watertight integrity.

The problem with airliner plug doors is that they must open inward by definition. In most cases they came free entirely and required the operator to throw the 20 kg door out through the opening, or (later) to lay the door along the armrests. This proved to be a serious impediment for evacuation—the primary purpose for the overwing exit. If your common or primary use case is marred by some design factor in favor of a secondary need (to prevent in-flight operation), then you want to rethink the solution.

Nowadays the doors open outward and (generally) upward. The plug-door concept has been abandoned. Instead there are robust interlocks and pressure sensors that prevent inadvertent opening of the door in flight. An inherently "unsafe" design can be made safe by the complication of combinatoric factors. That is, making it more complicated in some ways that might seem flaky may make the whole design better suited for its primary purpose. Similarly, Meyer Werft undoubtedly believed that the inherently fail-prone visor design could be made safe by the employment of redundancies, requirements for inspections and upgrades, and restrictions on operation. But absent any agreed-upon standards for how to do this, they were left to their own devices.
 
Yeah, they go around saying 'nano' a lot about the smallest thing.
But not "nano-milli," which is gibberish.

Nanoscale metallurgy is very much a new thing, so someone you met long ago wouldn't have been using it seriously that way. Yes, scientists will sometimes use facetious measurements like, "microfortnight" or "nanoparsec." But again, you only get to joke that way when people know that you understand how to use units properly.
 
Oh perhaps this is another "joke"? So so hard to tell.
The only thing worse than a "scientist" with no scientific understanding is a comedian who isn't funny.

Of course we make jokes in science. In America, the phrase "metric ◊◊◊◊-ton" is often used to indicate a very large amount of anything, rendered in those words for comedic effect. That's the s-word, by the way, although a variant exists that uses the f-word. For the purposes of this story, we need to mentally read the diamonds as the s-word.

Now those of us who know the history of measurement understand that defining the units in SI has vacillated between esoteric phenomena and actual prototype objects. Ideally we want to tie the measurement to some objective, stable physical phenomenon. For example, the second is defined as the time taken by a certain number of a particular kind of state transitions in the 133Cs atom—the basis of the atomic clock. The meter has been variously defined according to the wavelength of light emitted by a certain element, according to the speed of light in a given amount of time, and most importantly by to a physical prototype—a platinum-iridium bar. And the kilogram has been defined variously according to the mass of a certain volume of water, and also in terms of a physical prototype (again, a chunk of platinum-iridium).

Those of us unable to agree on what physical phenomenon should be the basis for defining a metric ◊◊◊◊-ton have thus concluded that there must be a giant turd locked in a vault somewhere in Paris.

See, that's how you tell a science joke.
 
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Nowadays the doors open outward and (generally) upward. The plug-door concept has been abandoned. Instead there are robust interlocks and pressure sensors that prevent inadvertent opening of the door in flight. An inherently "unsafe" design can be made safe by the complication of combinatoric factors. That is, making it more complicated in some ways that might seem flaky may make the whole design better suited for its primary purpose.

Reminds me of the outward-opening cargo bay door on the DC10, with supposedly failsafe locks which catastrophically failed on two different aircraft with great loss of life. The great thing about the discipline of engineering is the practice of learning from one's mistakes (especially mistakes with such dreadful consequences). Undoubtedly a few of the engineers of today will bake hidden faults into their designs and implementations, but once those faults are discovered - hopefully following minimal consequences - the engineering world will incorporate the findings and move further forward still.
 
Reminds me of the outward-opening cargo bay door on the DC10, with supposedly failsafe locks which catastrophically failed on two different aircraft with great loss of life. The great thing about the discipline of engineering is the practice of learning from one's mistakes (especially mistakes with such dreadful consequences). Undoubtedly a few of the engineers of today will bake hidden faults into their designs and implementations, but once those faults are discovered - hopefully following minimal consequences - the engineering world will incorporate the findings and move further forward still.
That was why (until recently in some countries) there were no 'penalties' for screwing up in the aircraft world- you were encouraged to report any and all mishaps, with no fear of penalty or retribution...

This was actually a 'good thing' as it meant that all errors (regardless of whether it was on the manufacturing side or the operating side) were made aware of, and ways of 'closing the holes' developed...
Making overall safety improve...

Now may are penalised for mistakes- and so a attitude of 'cover it up' is developing...

NOT good for safety longterm...
 
Nice try. You said you no longer believe the Captain was shot. So you reject his conspiracy claims too. But yes, since I know a pilot doesn't record passenger or rescuee names in his log book, I'll absolutely pit my professional knowledge and skill against his.

And, just based on past experience with these threads, I strongly suspect Meister claimed no such thing in the first place. Until proven otherwise with an actual quote, you'd be pitting your professional knowledge against Vixen's demonstrably spotty recollections.
 
And, just based on past experience with these threads, I strongly suspect Meister claimed no such thing in the first place. Until proven otherwise with an actual quote, you'd be pitting your professional knowledge against Vixen's demonstrably spotty recollections.
And asking for an actual useful reference for what Meister said is a waste of time, because Vixen isn't going to provide it. It's patently obvious she hasn't read Meister's book, and if pushed will simply make a vague handwave towards something she said at some point in the past which has the reference. This is despite the fact that she has boasted about her research skills.

Both her research and debate methodology are are best extremely sloppy and at worst downright dishonest at times.

So Vixen, what's your reference for the curious body on the bridge that supposedly shouldn't have been there? Don't make a vague reference to something you already said, if you're the diligent researcher you claim you are, you should be able to dig up a reference and post it easily. But I'm betting you won't and can't.
 
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And, just based on past experience with these threads, I strongly suspect Meister claimed no such thing in the first place. Until proven otherwise with an actual quote, you'd be pitting your professional knowledge against Vixen's demonstrably spotty recollections.
Quite true. As far as I recall (and I linked to it some pages back) the proposition that the captain had been shot came from Jutta Rabe, who reported an unidentified Swedish diver had made such a report after allegedly seeing the captain's body with a bullet hole in his head. The unreliable nature of such a second-hand report became the basis for doubting Rabe's reliability as a journalist. But as I wrote at length, it's not necessary to pass judgment on Rabe's character or career writ large in order to conclude that the claim of the captain having been shot is not supported by reliable evidence.

My understanding regarding Meister is that his book Lõpetamata logiraamat deals with a number of speculative theories. But since I have not read the book, I cannot speak with authority on what topics it covers or what authorities or evidence are cited to in it. @Vixen herself has cited to it in various chapters of this thread to support various claims. But apparently this book is the source of the speculation that the red-clad figure on the bridge might have been some kind of hijacker.

As with Rabe, the voir dire of Meister extends no further than the assumption that as a member of JAIC he "must" have had access to all the evidence, including that for which there is no longer any other surviving source. Again, pure speculation and assumption. And again, not especially credible since an author's purported insider positioning simply creates a greater expectation that that author will be able to produce or cite to the evidence.
 
The signal to noise ratio is not so good. Lots of bickering and off-topic posts have been moved to AAH. Please stay on topic.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: varwoche
 
My dad had a set of whites he got in the 50s when he was Junior Engineer with P&O. On the cruise ships it was expected that officers would dress for dinner and whites were worn in the Med or East of Suez. After he moved to tankers he never looked at them again. They were in the wardrobe for 30 years until he finally threw them out after they started to go yellow.

I had a set of whites in the RN. We were issued them when we went to the Med, Only wore them once or twice as standard working dress was white shorts with the white square neck t shirt usually worn under the uniform jacket.

like this


1756762979154.png
 
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