The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VII

[Vixen]

Are you suggesting that the ' and " notation depends on the expected duration of an event? That 1' 8" for, say, a sea voyage would mean 1 day and 8 hours? For a journey to a distant planet it would mean 1 year and 8 months?

To the mathematically minded I can see no problem in annotating one day as 1' as long as it is clear it refers to 24 hours, or whatever your one day represents, it would work perfectly well in a sexigesimal system.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Inches aren't broken down into twelfths. If they were, you could absolutely correctly choose to just use the inches and 1/12 inches as ' and ", if those are your stated parameters. In that instance, it would not be correct to insist the ' is a foot, when you have stated your parameters are imches and 1/12 inches, and it is obvious that is what you are referring to. End of discussion.

This is gibberish. Prime notation does not change depending on "parameters" in any way. You're just wrong Vixen, why can't you accept it?

 

[Mojo]

Last attempt: A sexigesimal system is a base-60 number system that originated with the Sumerians and was developed by the Babylonians. It can be applied to any base-60 system. And that includes hours and minutes. It doesn't have to include a parameter that is not relevant, as people insist.

The whole point of using any notation is to make things unambiguous. Everyone uses ' for feet or minutes, and " for inches or seconds. Otherwise you end up with a knee-high Stonehenge.

 

[JayUtah]

I have confirmed several times my psychology honours degree course was heavily experimental, behavioural and laboratory-based, with a mandatory fifteen lab reports utilising applied statistics (which constitutes one of the finals exams).

Yes, that's about the same workload as one beginning chemistry class, required of al students graduating from my university. Be all that as it may have transpired decades ago when you were in college, nowadays you cannot demonstrate any proficiency in science. You are not a scientist. You are not competent to determine whether others are doing proper science. Stop trying to fool people into thinking you know what you're talking about.

Last attempt: A sexigesimal system is a base-60 number system that originated with the Sumerians and was developed by the Babylonians. It can be applied to any base-60 system. And that includes hours and minutes. It doesn't have to include a parameter that is not relevant, as people insist.

Just stop.

There is no system, era, or place in which writing 35″ is properly read as "thirty-five minutes." You made a mistake. If you had simply said at the time, "Oops, I meant to write something else," you would have endured a short period of ribbing. But since you insist—years later—that you were still somehow correct, you deserve every single iota of criticism your stubbornness invokes.

Inches aren't broken down into twelfths.

False. In primes notation for distance, the base unit is a yard. The first cut, ′, is the foot. The second cut, ″, is the inch. The third cut, ‴, is the ligne. It was ever only used in watchmaking and so did not survive as long as the other units

Similarly the base unit of time is the day hour. The first cut is hours minutes. The second cut is seconds.

These divisions do not change.

If they were, you could absolutely correctly choose to just use the inches and 1/12 inches as ' and ", if those are your stated parameters.

No, that is not how the system works, and I explained this to you at length at the time.

In that instance, it would not be correct to insist the ' is a foot, when you have stated your parameters are imches and 1/12 inches, and it is obvious that is what you are referring to. End of discussion.

No. You are literally just making this up.

 

[Mojo]

I don't care how you misremember being taught it at Hogwarts, the ' symbol means minutes and the " symbol means seconds and it was never otherwise.

Hogwarts? This is more like Father Ted's caravan.

 

[Andy_Ross]

But that isn't what you said. You said 35" which means 35 seconds.

You're simply wrong here Vixen and making up a load of waffle about the Sumerians won't fix that. You used the prime notation of time incorrectly and when it was pointed out you doubled down, whined that you were taught differently and demanded that we accept your error as correct. When we naturally declined to do so you whined about how mean we were and started throwing insults.

But she's a scientist!

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Hogwarts? This is more like Father Ted's caravan.

I can think of another Father Ted scene that's appropriate as well...

 

[Mojo]

Similarly the base unit of time is the day. The first cut is hours. The second cut is seconds.

Surely that's hours, minutes and seconds?

 

[Mojo]

I can think of another Father Ted scene that's appropriate as well...

That would be an ecumenical matter.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Hogwarts? This is more like Father Ted's caravan.

Small ' Far Away "

 

[JayUtah]

Surely that's hours, minutes and seconds?

Correct; I'm under-caffeinated at the moment.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Surely that's hours, minutes and seconds?

In time and angular measurement, the prime notation ′ is minutes, and the double prime ″ is the second

An hour is h

 

[MarkCorrigan]

That would be an ecumenical matter.

Dougal, have you been studying your diagram?

 

[JayUtah]

All of this was covered in its own separate thread years ago.

Split Thread Thread 'Conspiracy theories about unconventional usage of notation'

Dec 24, 2022

A bit like:

• a ship can float on its side once it lists over its centre of buoyance: just like Herald of Free Enterprise! (Actually, resting on a bank!)
• A ship's cannonball in Nelson's day 'cannot have travelled at 900mph'!
• an EPIRB has to be switched on by one of the Captain's mates before it works!
• You can't use base sixty notation for hours, minutes and seconds!
• a bow visor will fall off if hit by a strong wave!
• a ship 155m long will sink with no trace within 0.35' because all of the windows on the listed side will have smashed thus letting in water...

• Steve
• Replies: 467
• Forum: Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories

 

[LondonJohn]

No. You are literally just making this up.

This is, as so often, a big part of the problem. Vixen posts any old crap that she clearly must have entirely made up, and she does so with this haughty arrogant tone that reeks of "See, I know what I'm talking about, but I see I'm having no joy educating you" - when ironically exactly the opposite is the true position. A psychologist would have a field day decoding all this

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Oh god the cannonball thing. The argument over muzzle velocity V projectile velocity...

 

[Reformed Offlian]

The whole point of using any notation is to make things unambiguous. Everyone uses ' for feet or minutes, and " for inches or seconds. Otherwise you end up with a knee-high Stonehenge.

We're going to need to rechoreograph the thread so that the elves don't trod[sic, I think?] on it.

 

[Myriad]

The common colon notation for time (nn:nn) is used despite sometimes being ambiguous without context. 1:54 as the runtime of a movie is just under two hours, while 1:54 as the length of a song is just under two minutes.

I've hypothesized that Vixen is recalling the potential ambiguity of colon-delimited time being pointed out in a class, and misremembering it as being taught that there were multiple interpretations of prime and double-prime.

 

[Steve]

This is gibberish. Prime notation does not change depending on "parameters" in any way. You're just wrong Vixen, why can't you accept it?

Vixen is never wrong. Vixen is a 999er and a STEM accountant with impeccable research skills (and access to a fine thesaurus).. Only Vixen knows the TRUTH and the rest of the world, including all on this forum, are merely determined to disparage her remarkable abilities out of pure jealousy.

 

[Mojo]

Do try out this exercise and let me know how you get on: Consider the old duodecimal system of £, s. d ~vs~ the current decimal one. Reflect on whether anyone still uses the old notation and ask yourself why not. Think about the logic of using parameters that have no relevance.

It not to do with the "relevance" of parameters, it's to do with common usage. Going to your "£, s. d" example, "£" always meant pounds, "s" always meant shillings, and "d" always meant pennies. Nobody ever said, "you get twenty of these for a pound, and I was correct to say they are 1d each because "d" can mean shillings", which is effectively what you have been doing.