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Cont: The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 32

According to the ECHR she did and to anyone who can read with a modicum of comprehension.

What part of "I can't know who the killer is because I didn't return back to the cottage" is NOT a retraction for you?

It's also noted that you ignore that the wounds were NOT the result of a 'knife swiping' at Kercher as in your scenario.
If you care to read the judge's notes you'll understand that employing purple prose in the form of in my head I saw it was Patrik, doesn't get you off a charge of deliberately and cunningly trying to pervert the course of justice by pointing law investigators to a person you know is innocent.
 
Yet again, you use the plural (without evidence) when there was only ONE burglary prank. This is exactly why you are not credible.


Your usual hyperbole; there is no evidence she was "forced" to apologize and did not do so immediately and voluntarily. Again, this is why you are not credible.


Who exactly said the above? Another M. Smith? Another D. Williams? Another T. Jackson? Because you give no evidence of this at all. Your unsupported claims have proven not to be credible for a reason.

Your repeated use of "B&E" is intentional exaggeration. Knox did not steal anything...the removed items were all returned immediately with no intention of keeping them. If simply entering someone's room without express permission is a "B&E" then so is Amanda and Raffaele's opening Laura's and Filomena's bedroom doors and entering.

What a silly remark. How much 'experience' does a person need to have in order to know that removing items will make it look like a burglary? Duh.

Which bring up this question: If Knox was so experienced at staging a burglary, then why didn't she remove the laptop and camera in Laura's room or any other valuable items? Why did Raffaele tell the police nothing was stolen?

No matter how much you want it, you can't have it both ways.

What is it with you and your need to dishonestly exaggerate things (plural "rape fantasies") and misrepresent things ("chicks wanting it")?
It's not like you haven't made this false "rape fantasy" accusation before and had it pointed out to you that her class assignment story was an ANTI-RAPE story. The story was about a brother's DISGUST for and CONFRONTING of his "baby brother" drugging and (implied) rape of a girl. Nor was it about "chicks wanting it".

Your continued and deliberate misrepresentation about this story is intentional dishonesty.


So no, because you minimize Guede's history and exaggerate and misrepresent Knox's history.

"Despite no police record" ignores being caught RED HANDED BY THE POLICE WITH STOLEN PROPERTY FROM TWO DIFFERENT CRIMES (and arguably a third regarding the gold watch) for which he had NO credible explanations. You also ignore that he was eventually convicted of both.

So predictable.
B&E doesn't refer to stealing, it refers to illegally accessing a property by breaking and entering, for example, forcing a lock or smashing a window. Guede has never been convicted of Breaking and Entering. You claim AK removed objects from this person's room, but I am sorry, that is technically not only B&E but also burglary proper. So historically, Knox is the real burglar. Guede only ever got charged with 'being in possession of stolen property'. No amount of trying to pin the solicitor's office break in and the theft of a gold watch from some old lady living nearby, by you, makes it true.
 
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As many readers here may be aware, the provisional convictions of Knox and Sollecito on the murder/rape charges were due to flaws in those trials. What may not be fully understood is that many of those flaws are evidence of the survival into relatively current times (the year 2007 and later) of dysfunctional and unfair Italian judicial practices from the pre-1988 reforms of the Italian Code of Criminal Procedure and required, or still require, correction by further reforms of Italian laws or the Italian Constitution. One example from the Knox - Sollecito case was the effort to introduce the findings of Guede's fast-track trial into the Knox - Sollecito trials as was done in the Nencini Court of Appeal trial; such documentary evidence was claimed lawfully introduced under CPP Articles 238 and 238-bis. However, as pointed out in the Marasca CSC panel MR that quashed the Nencini judgment, that introduction was an unlawful ruse because (although possibly not explained fully in the MR) it violated CPP Articles 238, paragraph 5, and 192, paragraph 3, as well as Article 111 of the Italian Constitution, in the clause:

The guilt of the defendant cannot be established on the basis of statements by persons who, out of their own free choice, have always voluntarily avoided undergoing cross-examination by the defendant or the defence counsel.

This clause of the Italian Constitution was introduced only in 2001 (the current Italian Constitution dates from 1948). The clause was introduced as the result of the resolution of an ECHR case, Craxi v. Italy (No. 2). Here's a summary of this result from the DEJ/CoM website Factsheet on Italy:



See: https://rm.coe.int/ma-italy-eng/1680a186af, page 3, Fairness of Proceedings

More details of the 1999 and subsequent reforms to the Italian Constitution and laws in relation to the Craxi v. Italy (No. 2) case may be found in a CoM Resolution ResDH(2005)28 at:

https://hudoc.echr.coe.int/eng?i=001-68986

Here's an excerpt from that CoM Resolution:


In conclusion, readers here should recognize the probability that the ECHR cases Knox v. Italy and Sollecito v. Italy do not merely affect the rights of Knox and Sollecito, but the laws as well as police and judicial practices of Italy that potentially affect the rights of all persons in Italy.
In the current case under topic, the issue of whether there were 'astonishing flaws' in the investigation was never established as a fact by a merits court (first or second instance merits and/or appeal). It is simply a hypothetical blurting out by Marasca- Bruno because they could think of no other reason to claim grounds for an acquittal due to 'insufficient evidence'. A judge can only quote what has been pleaded in court, so clearly, Marasca-Bruno are quoting the words of Bongiorno, in her astonishingly long two-day marathon 'twenty-minute skeleton' argument. It shows you what a piss-poor barrister she is if that's the best argument she could come up with and how dreadfully improper M-B were, quite aside from their breaching the CPP deadline in issuing their MR, extended by some three months, as they tossed and turned at night trying to work out how to word something so pitifully absurd and illogical and not determined by the facts found at trial. Now we know why Dr. Sollecito hired Bongiorno: he wanted someone who, quote, 'could make water run up hill'.
 
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If the case against Amanda and Raffaele was so solid, why is that Vixen has consistently been unable to present any arguments without resorting to lying. Vixen claims the notion Amanda was a nice woman incapable of committing a brutal murder was a myth but if this is true, why is it necessary to resort to lying to sustain this argument? There are several falsehoods highlighted in this post; Amanda carried several burglary pranks, was forced to apologize over one prank and what Amanda wrote in a story about rape. The rape story lie has been constantly repeated. Again why repeat the same lies over and over again?
It wasn't one story it was several. She put them up on her MySpace page into the public domain and wrote yet another one whilst in Capanne. It's by her own account, so hardly my 'falsehood'. As for the ridiculous claim by Stacyhs that it was a school class assignment to write about anti-rape, that is just something made up on the hoof to 'explain' it. As if any English teacher instructs a class of minors to write a lurid composition about rape and violence.
 
Because all rent was due on the first of the month unless a holiday (as in Nov.) and in cash. His landlady, Rina Marani, told police she had asked him to give her proof of employment which he had not done.


In Laura's room, two of her drawers were pulled out as seen in photos 42 and 43 taken on Nov. 2. Why would they be pulled out and left open by Laura, who by all accounts, was very neat? Perhaps he did pull out the drawers in Filomena's nightstand but closed them so he could see into the one below it. Rather difficult to do with the one on top open. He never went in AK's room because he never got the opportunity before Meredith came home. After killing her, he logically went into her purse and grabbed her wallet. Was her cash rent money in there? If so, he had what he came for and got the hell out of Dodge so to speak.

Amanda, with all her "experience in staging burglaries", according to you, could also have reported her own rent money missing, thereby setting herself up a burglary victim, yet safely have it hidden away.

Guede was never in the downstairs apartment on Nov. 1.


He didn't know. But he knew he had no money for his own rent so that's what he was looking for. Like any burglar, he was looking for whatever he could get, with cash being paramount. If he didn't find cash, he'd have to gamble on finding something he could fence quickly.

Did you mean "He"? If so, how would he know when Filomena, or any of the girls, might be home? He wanted an empty cottage which he had that night. Why wait for some unknown possibility?
Would could should again. So by your would could shoulding, Guede's rent was due so he said to himself, I know what, I'll just pop along to the cottage and see if Mez has rent money lying around. Instead of knocking, I'll shimmy up a drainpipe. Please stop it.
 
And we have absolutely NOTHING that disputes it.

All they had to do was go to Gubbio as planned and let someone else come home to discover the crime. She could have stayed the entire time at Raffaele's after going to Gubbio, never going back to the cottage and make damn sure they could prove where they were by taking photos of the trip (date and time stamped), called people from his place, had friends over, etc. The idea that they just made up this convoluted and detailed story which they'd have to remember is just dumb. NOT going back to the cottage would have been so much easier.
And to complete this lovely romantic tale, to promote her latest cash-earning project, she arranged to finally go to see the statue of St. Francis of Assissi, the lovely patron saint of cute little animals and birds, with the former great love of her life, Raffaele, the owner of a brand new Audi, until the wicked evil prosecutor tore them apart. But everyone lived happily ever after in a PR photo opportunity for the cameras to promote the new venture. Ah, how sweet.
 
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Oh, good god. This is what you wrote:


Only YOU could equate "Vecchiotti's bibliography is full of US citations" with "on the orders of their US masters".

Do you really have to have it explained to you that forensic science facts do NOT change between borders?
Does a Y haplotype in DNA in the US not indicate a male in Italy? Does secondary transfer of DNA exist in Germany, but not in the UK? Does how it happens change? Does DNA change between countries? How about fingerprints?

As for Vinci "being part of a US agency", exactly what agency would that be? The FBI? CIA?

Just put the shovel down.
Erratum: soz, it looks like I mistook Vinci for someone else. Vinci is:

Professor Dr F. Vinci, Associate Professor of Forensic Medicine at the University of Bari, and director of the University Centre for Ballistic Forensics of the same university
 
Before getting into your post below, I noticed you fail to acknowledge that your claim below is false. Not that that's surprising or unusual:

Now. back to our regularly scheduled show....

Published on Aug 19, the day before you post below which is why I had not seen it:

How is stating facts being a racist?
Fact: Guede is Black.
Fact: Guede is an immigrant as he is not an Italian citizen.
Therefore, I'd say "SO what?" Your attempt to portray Burleigh as a racist fails miserably just as failed to do with me.
Saying Guede played the race card himself by falsely claiming that the "knife wielding" killer proclaimed "Black man found, black man guilty" is not racist.

When another person under oath corroborates his sworn deposition, that most certainly does make it stronger.
To argue otherwise is beyond irrational.


She was NOT his spouse. She was his girlfriend. You know that so your remark is clearly dishonest.


I didn't say it was proof. I said she corroborated his sentence under oath. Having more than one witness to an event most certainly strengthens it which is why police like to have multiple witnesses to an event.
Why do you play these silly games?

Oh, those psychic powers of yours are once again on display knowing what the police thought!

Hellmann most certainly did take him seriously as written in his MR:
No sorry, as Guede arrived in Italy as a child aged five, it is clearly racist for Burleigh to insinuate he is a poverty-stricken low class criminal, when he was adopted into a wealthy Italian family, or at the least she is appealing to people's racist instincts in the same way we see the far right doing. IOW she is saying, well, here's your obvious murderer no need to look at the facts found from the evidence presented in a criminal court.
 
No sorry, as Guede arrived in Italy as a child aged five, it is clearly racist for Burleigh to insinuate he is a poverty-stricken low class criminal, when he was adopted into a wealthy Italian family, or at the least she is appealing to people's racist instincts in the same way we see the far right doing. IOW she is saying, well, here's your obvious murderer no need to look at the facts found from the evidence presented in a criminal court.
This post is a typical example of Guede's supporters playing the race card.
 
No sorry, as Guede arrived in Italy as a child aged five, it is clearly racist for Burleigh to insinuate he is a poverty-stricken low class criminal, when he was adopted into a wealthy Italian family, or at the least she is appealing to people's racist instincts in the same way we see the far right doing. IOW she is saying, well, here's your obvious murderer no need to look at the facts found from the evidence presented in a criminal court.

The criminal courts acquitted Knox and Sollecito of every single charge related to the murder. Next?
 
And to complete this lovely romantic tale, to promote her latest cash-earning project, she arranged to finally go to see the statue of St. Francis of Assissi, the lovely patron saint of cute little animals and birds, with the former great love of her life, Raffaele, the owner of a brand new Audi, until the wicked evil prosecutor tore them apart. But everyone lived happily ever after in a PR photo opportunity for the cameras to promote the new venture. Ah, how sweet.

What should you care about how innocent people choose to spend their time?
 
Would could should again. So by your would could shoulding, Guede's rent was due so he said to himself, I know what, I'll just pop along to the cottage and see if Mez has rent money lying around. Instead of knocking, I'll shimmy up a drainpipe. Please stop it.

Oh dear. What an embarrassing post.
 
It wasn't one story it was several. She put them up on her MySpace page into the public domain and wrote yet another one whilst in Capanne. It's by her own account, so hardly my 'falsehood'. As for the ridiculous claim by Stacyhs that it was a school class assignment to write about anti-rape, that is just something made up on the hoof to 'explain' it. As if any English teacher instructs a class of minors to write a lurid composition about rape and violence.

Why should you care what an innocent person wrote as a school assignment?
 
In the current case under topic, the issue of whether there were 'astonishing flaws' in the investigation was never established as a fact by a merits court (first or second instance merits and/or appeal). It is simply a hypothetical blurting out by Marasca- Bruno because they could think of no other reason to claim grounds for an acquittal due to 'insufficient evidence'. A judge can only quote what has been pleaded in court, so clearly, Marasca-Bruno are quoting the words of Bongiorno, in her astonishingly long two-day marathon 'twenty-minute skeleton' argument. It shows you what a piss-poor barrister she is if that's the best argument she could come up with and how dreadfully improper M-B were, quite aside from their breaching the CPP deadline in issuing their MR, extended by some three months, as they tossed and turned at night trying to work out how to word something so pitifully absurd and illogical and not determined by the facts found at trial. Now we know why Dr. Sollecito hired Bongiorno: he wanted someone who, quote, 'could make water run up hill'.

LOL. You clearly have little or no understanding of how criminal justice works in general, and how it worked in this case. Please educate yourself before posting any more embarrassing crap like this. Many thanks in advance.
 
B&E doesn't refer to stealing, it refers to illegally accessing a property by breaking and entering, for example, forcing a lock or smashing a window. Guede has never been convicted of Breaking and Entering. You claim AK removed objects from this person's room, but I am sorry, that is technically not only B&E but also burglary proper. So historically, Knox is the real burglar. Guede only ever got charged with 'being in possession of stolen property'. No amount of trying to pin the solicitor's office break in and the theft of a gold watch from some old lady living nearby, by you, makes it true.

Oh dear. Burglary is precisely the act of entering a property illegally. The act of taking property without the owner's permission is theft. Again, please educate yourself before embarrassing yourself with a pompous attempt to educate anyone else. Thanks.
 
If you care to read the judge's notes you'll understand that employing purple prose in the form of in my head I saw it was Patrik, doesn't get you off a charge of deliberately and cunningly trying to pervert the course of justice by pointing law investigators to a person you know is innocent.

The ECHR disagrees with you. Do you know better than the ECHR?
 
In the current case under topic, the issue of whether there were 'astonishing flaws' in the investigation was never established as a fact by a merits court (first or second instance merits and/or appeal). It is simply a hypothetical blurting out by Marasca- Bruno because they could think of no other reason to claim grounds for an acquittal due to 'insufficient evidence'. A judge can only quote what has been pleaded in court, so clearly, Marasca-Bruno are quoting the words of Bongiorno, in her astonishingly long two-day marathon 'twenty-minute skeleton' argument. It shows you what a piss-poor barrister she is if that's the best argument she could come up with and how dreadfully improper M-B were, quite aside from their breaching the CPP deadline in issuing their MR, extended by some three months, as they tossed and turned at night trying to work out how to word something so pitifully absurd and illogical and not determined by the facts found at trial. Now we know why Dr. Sollecito hired Bongiorno: he wanted someone who, quote, 'could make water run up hill'.
Your post reflects an extreme ignorance of the Italian legal process and its laws of criminal procedure. You should do some reading of the CPP, starting with CPP Article 606, on the authority of the CSC to make rulings on the grounds of a judgment, which would include the investigative phase and its results.
 
Why are you talking about 'women in general'? We are talking about a specific individual in a specific situation.

I'd have thought a proper psychologist, let alone one who self-professed some sort of speciality of criminology, would easily understand the matter in hand. To point to another example: the BTK killer (Dennis Rader) got his victims to tie each other up, precisely because he pointed a gun at them and told them that if they complied and submitted themselves to being tied up, he wouldn't physically harm them. And guess what? Each and every one of his victims did indeed allow themselves to be tied up and to comply with Rader. For the blindingly obvious psychological reason that whatever Rader planned to do to them once they'd been tied up was very probably preferable to refusing to submit and calling out and getting shot as a result. As it happened of course, Rader had, from the get go, the intention to torture and strangle/suffocate them once they were tied up, but they weren't to know that - in their minds, it was more likely that Rader intended to rob them and perhaps sexually assault the women/girls, either of which was vastly preferable to being shot dead for refusing to comply.

And it's pitifully easy to postulate a similar scenario in the case of Kercher's murder by Guede: Guede waved his knife at Kercher, and let her know that if she complied, didn't struggle, and didn't shout or scream, he wouldn't hurt her. And Kercher understandably took the "comply" option rather than get stabbed immediately. Then (in line with the reliable forensic evidence and Guede's account) once Guede started violating Kercher sexually she reasoned that she was about to get violently raped and she screamed and struggled, prompting Guede to stab her three times in the neck.
 
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You're wrong, the mass of blood on her bra - which was found discarded, by her foot - indicates she was still wearing it when the fatal stab to the neck occurred. As it took a further fifteen minutes for her to drown from inhaling the blood from her throat, that would account for the further aspirated blood showing over her chest.
Well duh! I didn't say she was undressed before the knife wound, I said she was undressed while still alive. If she's aspirating blood, she is alive. So no, not wrong.
Now, if sexual assault was the only aim, all the perp needed to do was simply lift it up. There wasn't any need to tear it off or cut it off with a knife. She was moved. Blood spatter experts know she died by the closet and that she was dragged by her hair some eighteen inches away from it.
And where is your evidence she died by the closet or that she was dragged by her hair? You don't have either.. it's speculation at best.
It was believed there was a plan to lift her up onto a sheet and remove the body all together.

Studies show that people cover the faces of people they know when they are dead, so Mignini was correct to surmise - and he has seen plenty of crime scenes - that the perp was someone who knew her.
No, he claimed only a female would cover their victim, and he was wrong about that. Stop lying.
A random burglar/rapist/killer would just be out of there fast because of the fear of being caught. Here's the thing, Guede wouldn't know the rent money was due so how would he know there was €300 lying around. Yet nothing was stolen from Filomena's room and he didn't even go into Knox' room, nor Laura's (nor even Filomena's as there is no forensic sign of him there). So he had a personal grudge against Mez. Playing devil's advocate here, explain what this personal grudge Guede had towards Mez was about.
Wow, are you making a whole series of baseless assumptions. Who ever said Guede knew there was €300 lying around? He was there to steal whatever he could steal. Of course, Meredith comes home and surprises him, they get into a confrontation and it leads to her death. Now he just wants to get out of the cottage WITHOUT taking things that can connect him to the murder. Of course, once he realized he needed the keys to get out of the cottage, he went into Meredith's handbag, found her wallet, found the money, cards and phones, and took them, later deciding to toss the phones for fear they'll connect him to the crime.
 

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