Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

[Pixel42]

Yes, and this thread is hate. People that want to control others. They think they have a right to tell others how they should feel, think, and act.

Says the man telling all women exactly how they should feel, think, and act, and making clear his hatred of those unable or unwilling to comply.

 

[Pixel42]

I don't see that. But whatever.

Check out the reaction when the Capitol authorities pointed out that not only did every member of Congress have their own private facilities attached to their office but the building also had many unisex cubicles scattered around it, so there was no need to grant McBride access to female only spaces.

As long as there is anything labelled 'women only' TRAs will demand access to it, even if it's a self support group for women who have had miscarriages (yes, that really happened).

 

[Aber]

No idea how you can square this with your proclamation that "Whether they identify as woman, man, male, female, non-binary, lesbian, gay, homosexual, queer, +, ++, two -spirit, furrie, attack helicopter, or any letter(s) of the alphabet, they use the facilities that are commensurate with their BIOLOGICAL SEX."

Are you now amending your seemingly black-and-white rule with a loophole for people who can get away with breaking it?

The issue is that most of the discussion has been framed in terms of rights.

This requires clear and consistent dividing lines to make sense.

If an individual passes and uses the facilities that do not match their biological sex, accept that they do not have the right to do so, and apologise and leave when requested, then it may be a liveable compromise, not a loophole.

IIRC Emily's Cat has described this as what happened before the rise of trans rights activists, and I think it was what advised in the UK for those undergoing transition to get a GRC.

EDIT: several people have got here before me;

 

[Aber]

treating anyone who takes on the woman gender role as a woman

OK, what's a woman gender role?

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

The issue is that most of the discussion has been framed in terms of rights.

This requires clear and consistent dividing lines to make sense.

If an individual passes and uses the facilities that do not match their biological sex, accept that they do not have the right to do so, and apologise and leave when requested, then it may be a liveable compromise, not a loophole.
IIRC Emily's Cat has described this as what happened before the rise of trans rights activists, and I think it was what advised in the UK for those undergoing transition to get a GRC.

EDIT: several people have got here before me;

Absolutely nothing like Rosa Parks on a bus at all.

If a transsexual person is using a public facility and not getting in other user's faces or otherwise making a scene, what's the problem? Just leave them be. You don't have to agree with their point of view about gender/biology/politics/flower arranging, or understand what they feel. Just be kind.

 

[smartcooky]

Absolutely nothing like Rosa Parks on a bus at all.

Correct, NOTHING like Rosa Parks.

Your repeated attempts to draw comparisons between racism and the trans-issue fails.. every . single . time! It will get no traction here.

If a transsexual person transgender identified male is using a women's public facility and not getting in other user's faces or otherwise making a scene, what's the problem? Just leave them be.

FTFY

Their very presence in a place they are not supposed to be is the problem.

You don't have to agree with their point of view about gender/biology/politics/flower arranging, or understand what they feel.
Just be kind.

Ah, "just be kind"... the TRA euphemism for STFU!

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

I think this is the biggest non-issue on the planet. The idea of these strange people where they're not supposed to be. I think most public bathrooms should be unisex. Most bathrooms have private stalls in them. Everyone has to pee and everyone has to poop. So I don't give a ◊◊◊◊!

I'm starting to think this may be a view unique to engineers. Perhaps we are the freaks!

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

Correct, NOTHING like Rosa Parks.

Your repeated attempts to draw comparisons between racism and the trans-issue fails.. every . single . time! It will get no traction here.

FTFY

Their very presence in a place they are not suppose to be is the problem.


Ah, "just be kind"... the TRA euphemism for STFU!

You should try it sometime. Makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

 

[smartcooky]

The people that want to control others are those that:

• demand everyone else in the world must change our use of common language in order to suit their feelings
• demand that other people pretend to perceive them as the sex they are not
• demand that females surrender female-specific intimate spaces and let males use them at their whim
• demand that female lesbians include males with transgender identities in their dating pool and consider having sex with their ladypenis
• demand that female rape survivors submit to having an intimate exam performed by a male with a transgender identity, because asking for a real female hurts the male's feelings
• tells rape survivors to reframe their trauma so that males can join in group support sessions where intimate details of their rapes are being recounted
• demands that female athletes must celebrate being beaten by males who have transgender identities
• advocates for violence against females who disagree with their demands

You'll never get an honest response on this.

 

[smartcooky]

You should try it sometime. Makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

Nope, I will not STFU.

 

[Pixel42]

If a transsexual person is using a public facility and not getting in other user's faces or otherwise making a scene, what's the problem? Just leave them be.

That's exactly how it use to be. Then TRAs came along with their delusional and unreasonable demands. I'd be very happy to return to that, it's TRAs that make it impossible.

Just be kind.

As kind as TRAs are to the females whose safe spaces, services and sports leagues they want to abolish?

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

The people that want to control others are those that:

• demand everyone else in the world must change our use of common language in order to suit their feelings

With the exception of they/them as pronouns, which is grammatically wrong, confusing on the radio and comes across as pretentious, why not?

• demand that other people pretend to perceive them as the sex they are not

I think this is the big issue for a lot of people, particularly some members of this forum. I would suggest that most of us do this naturally. It's called theory of mind, and we adjust how we behave based on our mental models of other people's mental models. Usually people try to give others a clue about what's in their head by, for example, behaving or dressing in a particular way.

• demand that females surrender female-specific intimate spaces and let males use them at their whim

I don't believe the majority of transsexuals want females to allow any male into female-specific spaces at their whim.

• demand that female lesbians include males with transgender identities in their dating pool and consider having sex with their ladypenis

What do you think the chances of success are? I think about the same as men demanding that all women put realistic photos of how they look now on their dating profiles.

• demand that female rape survivors submit to having an intimate exam performed by a male with a transgender identity, because asking for a real female hurts the male's feelings

There is a solution for this. See below.

• tells rape survivors to reframe their trauma so that males can join in group support sessions where intimate details of their rapes are being recounted

There is a solution for this. See below.

• demands that female athletes must celebrate being beaten by males who have transgender identities

Isn't it taking part and trying your best that counts? Or is that just a lie we tell children?

In professional sports where biology matters they're all genetic freaks and/or taking performance enhancing drugs. In sports where biology doesn't matter, who cares? If you want to see some real fine-grained arguments about who should be in and who should be out, check out the Paralympics.

There should be restrictions in place for sports where physical contact takes place for safety that are based on size and weight.

• advocates for violence against females who disagree with their demands

That's a crime where I live.

There's a perfectly workable solution that reflects reality: Men, Women, Transmen and Transwomen. For normal day to day interactions, men and transmen and women and transwomen can rub along together and maybe try to understand each others points of view. I know, what a crazy idea! In interactions that are likely to be physically intimate, traumatic or where physical biology matters, everyone gets to seek out or request a person or group or service they feel most comfortable with or is most appropriate.

 

[lionking]

With the exception of they/them as pronouns, which is grammatically wrong, confusing on the radio and comes across as pretentious, why not?

I think this is the big issue for a lot of people, particularly some members of this forum. I would suggest that most of us do this naturally. It's called theory of mind, and we adjust how we behave based on our mental models of other people's mental models. Usually people try to give others a clue about what's in their head by, for example, behaving or dressing in a particular way.

I don't believe the majority of transsexuals want females to allow any male into female-specific spaces at their whim.

What do you think the chances of success are? I think about the same as men demanding that all women put realistic photos of how they look now on their dating profiles.

There is a solution for this. See below.

There is a solution for this. See below.

Isn't it taking part and trying your best that counts? Or is that just a lie we tell children?

In professional sports where biology matters they're all genetic freaks and/or taking performance enhancing drugs. In sports where biology doesn't matter, who cares? If you want to see some real fine-grained arguments about who should be in and who should be out, check out the Paralympics.

There should be restrictions in place for sports where physical contact takes place for safety that are based on size and weight.

That's a crime where I live.

There's a perfectly workable solution that reflects reality: Men, Women, Transmen and Transwomen. For normal day to day interactions, men and transmen and women and transwomen can rub along together and maybe try to understand each others points of view. I know, what a crazy idea! In interactions that are likely to be physically intimate, traumatic or where physical biology matters, everyone gets to seek out or request a person or group or service they feel most comfortable with or is most appropriate.

There’s so much ◊◊◊◊ in this.

Firstly why are you talking about transsexuals? What do you even mean by this?

Who cares about sport? Well obviously you don’t. For a start, try talking to professional women athletes who have had their health, income and achievement compromised by selfish transwomen who can’t possibly compete with athletes of their biological sex.

 

[d4m10n]

The issue is that most of the discussion has been framed in terms of rights.

Yes, but also in terms of (moral or legal) duties.

This requires clear and consistent dividing lines to make sense.

If we're talking about rules formulated and enforced by formal legal systems, yes.

If an individual passes and uses the facilities that do not match their biological sex, accept that they do not have the right to do so, and apologise and leave when requested, then it may be a liveable compromise, not a loophole.

It's only a workable compromise if they don't get fired from their job or face other similarly serious consequences which go beyond social sanction. American federal workers, for example, are now expected to use bathrooms corresponding with their birth sex even if they fit in fine as men before the new policy letter and even if every single woman in the bathrooms is now made less comfortable than they were before.

Emily's Cat has described this as what happened before the rise of trans rights activists, and I think it was what advised in the UK for those undergoing transition to get a GRC.

If we could say no one has a right to use the opposite sex space without also saying they have an affirmative duty to use the same sex space, this approach might be able to work. As it stands, people will be punished for failing to comply.

 

[d4m10n]

I'm just saying thar unisex bathrooms solve the problem.

I agree that they are perfectly serviceable in situations where only a few stalls are needed to accommodate the client base, and I've argued as much upthread. That said, if you are going to argue for policy solutions which you'd like to see implemented, you should realize that the process of persuasive argument will always involve convincing people to "think and act" in a certain way, and maybe take that into account.

Show me the women's advocacy groups that have been advocating for unisex communal restrooms.

Not even post-feminist LGBTQ+ advocates have asked for this.

Gender-Inclusive Restrooms

lgbtqia.ucdavis.edu

 

[acbytesla]

I'm starting to think this may be a view unique to engineers. Perhaps we are the freaks!

Perhaps. I don't get why access to women's bathrooms is such a problem.
Stalls provide privacy. It's not like men's bathroom's where with urinals where if you look real hard, you might see another guy's junk.

 

[d4m10n]

There's a perfectly workable solution that reflects reality: Men, Women, Transmen and Transwomen.

Somewhere a non-binary activist is posting furiously about being erased.

 

[d4m10n]

I don't get why access to women's bathrooms is such a problem.

Post in thread 'Transwomen are not Women - Part 15'

Jul 30, 2025

Those men who blithely tell women that the best solution to the bathroom issue is for them to be deprived of their single-sex facilities and forced to use single-occupancy cubicles turn about with men, should read this.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1950254725091176779

In fact, click on it and read the thread.

This is by no means unusual. Girls start their period in all sorts of places and have to learn to deal with it while continuing with whatever else it is they have to do at the time. Older women have pregnancy issues and disasters, still older women have the Sandie Peggie issue of menstrual flooding (some...

• Rolfe

• 

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

Post in thread 'Transwomen are not Women - Part 15'

Jul 30, 2025

Those men who blithely tell women that the best solution to the bathroom issue is for them to be deprived of their single-sex facilities and forced to use single-occupancy cubicles turn about with men, should read this.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1950254725091176779

In fact, click on it and read the thread.

This is by no means unusual. Girls start their period in all sorts of places and have to learn to deal with it while continuing with whatever else it is they have to do at the time. Older women have pregnancy issues and disasters, still older women have the Sandie Peggie issue of menstrual flooding (some...

• Rolfe

• 

Which begs the question, what if the teenage girl had been with her father that day?

There are all sorts of situations that people find themselves in that are not great. I don't think anyone feels great about having large numbers of strangers see them in a state. I don't get why a load of people the same biological sex as you seeing you in a state is significantly better than a load of people the same biological sex and of the opposite biological as you sex seeing you in a state.

I mean, when my father and I got covered from head to toe in duck crap walking through Drayton Manor Park I don't recall thinking "If only there were no women or girls walking by this would be so much better!" Similarly, when my father was dying of a brain tumour in a hospice, he didn't seem overly distressed when a female nurse changed the nappy he was wearing.

I think what most people want when they dealing with a state they're in is privacy from everyone except those directly involved in helping them.

 

[Matthew Best]

That's a crime where I live.

Has anyone ever been charged with such a crime? If not, why not, do you think?