Trump's promised ICE raids have begun

[steenkh]

But keep looking! I'm sure that sooner or later, you'll find The Protocols of the Elders of Illegal Immigration.

In my neck of the world Muslims are the great scare, and there is the talk of a cunning plan to exchange the Christian white population with brown Muslims. The horror!
In the U.S. it is the Latin Americans that scare white Christians. We may indeed some day see a “Protocols of the Elders of Illegal Immigration” where Latin American countries have made a secret contract to flood the U.S. with millions and millions of mentally deficient rapists and murderers fetched from the lunatic asylums where they have been collected precisely formthis purpose. Topped up with actual MS-13 gangsters of course.

 

[Trebuchet]

In my neck of the world Muslims are the great scare, and there is the talk of a cunning plan to exchange the Christian white population with brown Muslims. The horror!
In the U.S. it is the Latin Americans that scare white Christians. We may indeed some day see a “Protocols of the Elders of Illegal Immigration” where Latin American countries have made a secret contract to flood the U.S. with millions and millions of mentally deficient rapists and murderers fetched from the lunatic asylums where they have been collected precisely formthis purpose. Topped up with actual MS-13 gangsters of course.

No, no, no, you've got that wrong. In the USA it's Latin Americans AND Muslims AND Jews AND Asians AND Africans (except white South Africans, of course) who scare the White Evangelical Protestants. Because Catholics scare them too, even if they aren't brown.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

No, no, no, you've got that wrong. In the USA it's Latin Americans AND Muslims AND Jews AND Asians AND Africans (except white South Africans, of course) who scare the White Evangelical Protestants. Because Catholics scare them too, even if they aren't brown.

Not to mention LGBTQ+ people. We're apparently the worst of all.

 

[autumn1971]

You have people in this thread calling for violence. That's not coming from Fox.

One person. And I liked the report on a post that was out of line.

 

[Ziggurat]

He should have dome something to make sure he didn't lose it. Maybe stitch it to his clothing, in the form of a colored patch.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1947489831585779932

 

[steenkh]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1947489831585779932

It is a pity there is not more details in this story. Why would the family stage a “hoax”? How did the grandfather end up in Guatemala when not deported?
The policy of snatching people off the streets, transporting them to concentration camps all over the country, and not telling anyone, does have the drawback that when a brown person disappears, the suspicion falls on ICE, even if they are not involved.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

If this story is indeed a made-up yarn about somebody's grandpa who actually passed away years ago, the remaining question is whether it was intended to make ICE look bad or whether it was intended to make their critics look bad by falling for it.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1947489831585779932

Have you a source from somebody who doesn't lie every time he opens his mouth.

 

[Ziggurat]

Have you a source from somebody who doesn't lie every time he opens his mouth.

Links were in the story. But for the lazy, here's the DHS official statement:

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2025/07/21/dhs-sets-record-straight-ice-never-deported-medias-allentown-grandfather

I suspect you won't take their word for it, so here's an AP story which supports the DHS version:
Guatemala denies that Chilean green-card holder was deported from the United States

And another one with some additional details:
An Allentown grandfather's reported deportation went viral. Then discrepancies emerged
"Working with the name Luis Leon and a date of birth, del Pino found a man who matched that information, with the full name of Luis Guillermo Zúñiga León. This is the man who had entered the United States in 2015, he said, but he never lived abroad. What's more, that man died in Chile in 2019, according to a death certificate del Pino shared with The Inquirer."

This story has fallen apart completely.

 

[Ziggurat]

It is a pity there is not more details in this story. Why would the family stage a “hoax”?

No idea. But that seems to be what happened.

How did the grandfather end up in Guatemala when not deported?

There's no evidence that he did end up in Guatemala.

 

[steenkh]

Have you a source from somebody who doesn't lie every time he opens his mouth.

Well, there is this Snopes article.

 

[plague311]

No idea. But that seems to be what happened.

It appears that, according to the snopes article, the family didn't make it up out of whole cloth.

Though a person claiming to be an immigration attorney allegedly initially told the family Leon was dead

I don't have a dog in this fight at all. This isn't exactly unheard of when it comes to mass deportations with little to no oversight, or proper legal process, though. There will be people taking advantage of the situation to grift people for money, some cases of mistaken identity and, as we've already seen, the government illegally deporting the wrong people.

Perhaps if the government would handle this properly and in an organized fashion then ◊◊◊◊ like this wouldn't happen. It might even have a peripheral effect of citizens trusting the government, but that's not happening. What's happening is an absolute ◊◊◊◊ show that's being managed by, easily, the worst administration to ever exist in the United States.

 

[theprestige]

Have you a source from somebody who doesn't lie every time he opens his mouth.

Well, there is this Snopes article.

"An updated report by The Morning Call on July 21 also said that a Chilean journalist found no record of Leon at the hospital his family said treated him for pneumonia. Furthermore, the journalist found that a man with the same name and date of birth died in Santiago, Chile, in 2019."​

 

[Ziggurat]

It appears that, according to the snopes article, the family didn't make it up out of whole cloth.

What makes you say that? Your quote certainly doesn't support that conclusion. You're relying on things the family said (they said someone told them he died) in order to support your conclusion about whether the family is lying, without any independent verification of any of it. So far, it doesn't seem that anything the family has said can be backed up.

 

[theprestige]

If this story is indeed a made-up yarn about somebody's grandpa who actually passed away years ago, the remaining question is whether it was intended to make ICE look bad or whether it was intended to make their critics look bad by falling for it.

Occam's razor says the first option is the likeliest.

How would the second option even play out, in your view? It looks like the very first thing you did, when the hoax was exposed, was try to make it ICE's fault the hoax was so easy for you to believe in the first place. If even skeptics respond this way, I doubt most of the people blindly hating ICE will feel any different, or work any harder to separate truth from fiction.

The *real* remaining question is whether the hoax was an unprompted prank* by the family, or if they were encouraged by others to fan the flames of mass discontent and stochastic terrorism.

 

[steenkh]

Well, there is this Snopes article.

Also from Snopes:

Regardless, by July 20, Leon's brother in Chile had reportedly located Leon at a Guatemala City hospital who were treating him for pneumonia and, through a Chilean government contact, confirmed with an unidentified U.S. official that Leon arrived in Guatemala via a detention center in Minnesota.

Apparently, Leon was seized by ICE and put in a concentration camp before being shuffled off to Guatemala. The family does not want to talk to the media. Are they being threatened?

 

[theprestige]

Also from Snopes:

Apparently, Leon was seized by ICE and put in a concentration camp before being shuffled off to Guatemala. The family does not want to talk to the media. Are they being threatened?

Snopes says that the family says that the brother says that an unidentified Chilean official says that an unidentified American official says that...

Meanwhile, all of the identified government officials from all three countries agree that this incident never happened.

 

[steenkh]

Snopes says that the family says that the brother says that an unidentified Chilean official says that an unidentified American official says that...

Meanwhile, all of the identified government officials from all three countries agree that this incident never happened.

And where is Leon?

 

[theprestige]

And where is Leon?

He died in Chile in 2019.

 

[Ziggurat]

Everything is to doubt, starting with reality itself.

That's a copout.

And I did answer you, you simply chose to snip the answer out of your quote of me. What is your problem with my posts here? I'm not complaining that he got deported.

We don't actually know if he was even deported. We have his word for it, but nothing else. Almost nothing about the story can be verified.

I'm not wringing my hands about injustice or unfairness or cruelty. I'm complaining about the inefficiency of the process as presented.

And if the process as presented isn't what happened, then you're complaining about a fiction. So, did the process as presented happen? We have no ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ idea. The ONLY thing the journalist even claims was verified is that Thomas was once in BoP custody. She did not confirm that he had an injury, and was told not to fly. She did not confirm the charges against him. She did not even confirm that he was actually deported.

And given the Leon story and its implosion, where the people involved weren't anonymous and so had more motivation to not lie about it but appear to have lied anyways, why would you trust anything about an anonymous story? And note: the journalist doesn't even claim to have independently verified a single aspect of this story.

Why do you believe that is more likely to have been the case?

I made no claims about what's more likely. Could it have happened as described? Yes. Could it have happened differently? Yes. Could it have not happened at all? Yes. I have no information with which to assess the likelihood of these different possibilities.

And neither do you.