Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

[Thermal]

When you make it impossible for anyone to take actions to PREVENT fraud from occurring, and you make it impossible to PUNISH those who commit fraud... you have in effect made fraud a legal right for anyone who wishes to commit it.

There is no.prevention, and the Wi spa guy and many others are punished. No rights get granted, and the ones you imagine get granted, don't get tried, because they are impractical. The bad guys you imagine literally are sharp enough to figure this out, and simply dont do it. We have data, and the absense of reporting of your imagined offenders swarming the ladies rooms. We talked about this many times.

Eta: I see that the Wi spa guy was charged, and a jury found him not guilty of indecent exposure about a month ago.. Gonna read up.on that when I get a chance and see how it was reasoned

 

[Thermal]

Both examples of not using self ID. And that's your defense of self ID?

Self ID declared, to agents of the state obligated to respect it. Denied. Yes, it was used. Yes, it was denied.

 

[p0lka]

To me, the word men in this context means males of the human species. It does NOT include any females of the human species. I refuse to play humpty dumpty games that swap out literal and figurative meanings on a whim.

The modern day society and how it uses words at this present time does not match what you are stating to be correct though?

 

[Thermal]

To me, the word men in this context means males of the human species. It does NOT include any females of the human species. I refuse to play humpty dumpty games that swap out literal and figurative meanings on a whim.

It's not a "Humpty Dumpty game" when it is a common definition in virtually any modern dictionary.

What *is* a Humpty Dumpty game is insisting a word with multiple acknowledged common meanings has only one, because you say so. And considering the thread topic, to demand only that one usage is... suboptimal argumentation.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I don't use slurs for transwomen so it's kind of an unanswerable question, without saying I agree with your derogatory terminology for them.

What is derogatory in what I said? I'm referring to people that you already concede are actually male, and they have identity that is rightly referred to as transgender.

But if we drop the slurs (which would be good form anyway, as you guys have claimed to be ever so offended by derogatory language:

Oh please. You're the one who kept tossing around terms like "tranny", which is unquestionably a slur. Mind your own eyeball there, planker.

1) the belief that they are women, not men

Firstly, I don't "believe" I'm a female human - I am objectively observable as a female human. "Woman" is the word for an adult female human.

Secondly...

What do transgender identified males share in common with human females that (1) they do NOT share in common with human males and (2) can be objectively verified by an unbiased observer?

How can an unbiased observer objectively verify someone's belief?

I'm going to make some statements - you tell me where your skepticism rises enough for you to tap out.

I'm 5'2" in measured height as an adult
My mental image of myself is consistently about 6 inches taller than my measured height
I feel that I align better with society's expectations of tall people than of short people
I identify as tall
I believe my inner self is tall
I should be allowed to ride the roller coaster that has a 5'4" height requirement
Clothing manufacturers should avoid using bigoted terms like "short" or "petite" in their sizing, because it doesn't align with my identity, and it's exclusionary toward transtall people

 

[Emily's Cat]

I haven't been provided with anything. The Wi spa guy was referred to as a "he" by police, despite his IDsaying he was a woman, and was charged for his lewd behavior

Merager was found "not guilty" BECAUSE THEY DECLARED THEMSELVES TO BE TRANS despite having a history of exposure and sexual offenses, including multiple felonies. FFS, this completely intact male's out-loud declaration magically transformed their prior established history of FELONY sexual offenses into something that is totally okay and perfectly legal. Literally, Thermal - this male with complete twig and giggle berries is now LEGALLY ALLOWED to expose themself to non-consenting females... as long as they do it in FEMALE SINGLE SEX SPACES.

For ◊◊◊◊'s sake, there's a middle school male that RAPED TWO FEMALE STUDENTS IN TWO DIFFERENT SCHOOLS IN THE FEMALE BATHROOMS! The first instance was KNOWN, and they were never punished, because the poor delicate thing was trans... and they were simply transferred to a different school and their prior rape was covered up!

Holy cow, "Hannah Tubbs" sexually assaulted and raped a 10-year old female in a ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ goddamned bathroom at the age of 17. When they were finally caught and tried, they were 26 - and yet they are serving their time in a FEMALE JUVENILE DETENTION CENTER BECAUSE THEY SAID THEY WERE TRANS WHEN THEY WERE CAUGHT.

But sure, you've never been provided with anything. Nope, never ever happens.

 

[Emily's Cat]

There is no.prevention, and the Wi spa guy and many others are punished. No rights get granted, and the ones you imagine get granted, don't get tried, because they are impractical. The bad guys you imagine literally are sharp enough to figure this out, and simply dont do it. We have data, and the absense of reporting of your imagined offenders swarming the ladies rooms. We talked about this many times.

Eta: I see that the Wi spa guy was charged, and a jury found him not guilty of indecent exposure about a month ago.. Gonna read up.on that when I get a chance and see how it was reasoned

The reason is "they're a woman now". That's the ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ reason, every single ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ bit of it. Merager said magic words, and spent 30 minutes at the DMV to change their sex marker with absolutely nothing at all required other than their request to do so.

So now, despite having a history of multiple felony sex offenses... they have the green light to expose their dick and balls to non-consenting females as long as they do it in female single-sex spaces. Merager has now been granted the legal ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ *right* to commit sexual offenses, because now they're "a woman".

Because you cannot objectively verify anyone's belief.

 

[d4m10n]

Khelif has not *actually* socially transitioned, and that every single one of them knows full well that Khelif is a male.

I'm operating on the assumption that Khelif was originally raised as female by her family, which means she had to transition to being treated as male (including the physical interactions you mentioned) sometime later in life.

 

[Emily's Cat]

The modern day society and how it uses words at this present time does not match what you are stating to be correct though?

Modern day society doesn't use it that way. A small cohort of modern day society uses it that way, and they have been demanding that everyone else has to use it that way too. But the vast majority of people in the real world do NOT use it that way.

 

[Thermal]

What is derogatory in what I said? I'm referring to people that you already concede are actually male, and they have identity that is rightly referred to as transgender.

"Trans identified male" is a derogatory term. We've been over that. It ain't me that made that determination. Just like it ain't me that determined the offensiveness of the n word and other slurs. And I ain't arguing it. I am observing when members here choose slurs to express their opinions of others.

Oh please. You're the one who kept tossing around terms like "tranny", which is unquestionably a slur. Mind your own eyeball there, planker.

Yes. Are you at all familiar with the concept of sardonic expressions? Sarcastic mimicery, anything like that? When posters here soberly call transwomen "cross dressing pervs" and laugh about them.being called "freaks", y'all aint got much fig leaf to hide behind.

Firstly, I don't "believe" I'm a female human - I am objectively observable as a female human. "Woman" is the word for an adult female human.

And "woman" has more than one meaning in the English language. Because we are more complex than, say, ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ livestock.

Secondly...

How can an unbiased observer objectively verify someone's belief?

S ame way you verify who a Christian is, or a Republican. We've done this, several times.

I'm going to make some statements - you tell me where your skepticism rises enough for you to tap out.

I'm 5'2" in measured height as an adult
My mental image of myself is consistently about 6 inches taller than my measured height
I feel that I align better with society's expectations of tall people than of short people
I identify as tall
I believe my inner self is tall
I should be allowed to ride the roller coaster that has a 5'4" height requirement
Clothing manufacturers should avoid using bigoted terms like "short" or "petite" in their sizing, because it doesn't align with my identity, and it's exclusionary toward transtall people

Tall and short are relative terms, hence pretty useless in your attempted analogy. Alan Iverson was a six footer, and considered a short little guy by the NBA standards that he played in.

The thing is, I don't even disagree with you. I think Rachael Dolezal is full of it too. But the one lone transwoman I am personally acquainted with and have known for many years has convinced me I must be wrong. She seems totally sincere to me, and I think of her now as a woman (took a while, if im.being honest). So the slurs and hate-filled ◊◊◊◊ posted about those "pervs and freaks" by members here is a little repulsive. I hope you understand that, unplugged from the rest of the heated discussion.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I'm operating on the assumption that Khelif was originally raised as female by her family, which means she had to transition to being treated as male (including the physical interactions you mentioned) sometime later in life.

Maybe, but it's irrelevant. The entire lot of them lied in order to let an adult male engage in physical combat against females.

 

[d4m10n]

Maybe, but it's irrelevant.

If Khelif socially transitioned from being treated as female to being treated as male, then I'd say she is probably transgender in the usual sense of that term. I suppose it might hinge on whether she is in on the scheme?

 

[Thermal]

The reason is "they're a woman now". That's the ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ reason, every single ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ bit of it. Merager said magic words, and spent 30 minutes at the DMV to change their sex marker with absolutely nothing at all required other than their request to do so.

So now, despite having a history of multiple felony sex offenses... they have the green light to expose their dick and balls to non-consenting females as long as they do it in female single-sex spaces. Merager has now been granted the legal ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ *right* to commit sexual offenses, because now they're "a woman".

Because you cannot objectively verify anyone's belief.

If that was the case, he would never have been charged. It would have never made it past preliminary stages. He *was* charged. And found not guilty, as I ETAed above, and I'm going to look into why when I'm off the phone. I promise to get back to you on this one.

 

[Emily's Cat]

The thing is, I don't even disagree with you. I think Rachael Dolezal is full of it too. But the one lone transwoman I am personally acquainted with and have known for many years has convinced me I must be wrong. She seems totally sincere to me, and I think of her now as a woman (took a while, if im.being honest).

Dude, I am friends with a handful of transgender identified males. Some of them are lovely people. But the ones I know and respect ALSO respect female humans - including my own niecephew. Some of them use female bathrooms (which I don't agree with but also don't make a bug deal of with them), but NONE of them use female showers or changing rooms or spas. Because every single one of them accepts and understands that they remain male regardless of their personal feelings, and none of them think it should be acceptable for them to get their dicks out in a female intimate space.

The fact that I am friends with some people doesn't make the bad actors magically disappear or evaporate. And it doesn't negate the observable fact that SOME of the people who consider themselves to be transgender actually for realsies are perverts and predators.

 

[Emily's Cat]

If Khelif socially transitioned from being treated as female to being treated as male, then I'd say she is probably transgender in the usual sense of that term. I suppose it might hinge on whether she is in on the scam?

This is a really interesting kind of circular logic here. We've got a person who is male who has... socially transitioned to male?

 

[Thermal]

Merager was found "not guilty" BECAUSE THEY DECLARED THEMSELVES TO BE TRANS despite having a history of exposure and sexual offenses, including multiple felonies. FFS, this completely intact male's out-loud declaration magically transformed their prior established history of FELONY sexual offenses into something that is totally okay and perfectly legal. Literally, Thermal - this male with complete twig and giggle berries is now LEGALLY ALLOWED to expose themself to non-consenting females... as long as they do it in FEMALE SINGLE SEX SPACES.

For ◊◊◊◊'s sake, there's a middle school male that RAPED TWO FEMALE STUDENTS IN TWO DIFFERENT SCHOOLS IN THE FEMALE BATHROOMS! The first instance was KNOWN, and they were never punished, because the poor delicate thing was trans... and they were simply transferred to a different school and their prior rape was covered up!

Holy cow, "Hannah Tubbs" sexually assaulted and raped a 10-year old female in a ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ goddamned bathroom at the age of 17. When they were finally caught and tried, they were 26 - and yet they are serving their time in a FEMALE JUVENILE DETENTION CENTER BECAUSE THEY SAID THEY WERE TRANS WHEN THEY WERE CAUGHT.

But sure, you've never been provided with anything. Nope, never ever happens.

I don't recall the school stories. Are you sure they were discussed while I was taking part in this? Because that's what Zig said- evidence was presented to me personally.

I'll look up both school stories though, although I have said all along that schools (including those in my state) should be strictly sex segregated

 

[Emily's Cat]

If that was the case, he would never have been charged. It would have never made it past preliminary stages. He *was* charged. And found not guilty, as I ETAed above, and I'm going to look into why when I'm off the phone. I promise to get back to you on this one.

Yeah, get back to me on Hannah Tubbs too while you're in the business of insisting that nothing like this ever ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ happens.

Oh hey... here, why don't you look into these also?

https://le.utah.gov/interim/2024/pdf/00000577.pdf

 

[Emily's Cat]

I don't recall the school stories. Are you sure they were discussed while I was taking part in this? Because that's what Zig said- evidence was presented to me personally.

I'll look up both school stories though, although I have said all along that schools (including those in my state) should be strictly sex segregated

Honestly Thermal, I don't give a flying ◊◊◊◊ if you've heard the stories. The fact that you've already been presented with multiple instances of transgender identified males assaulting females in bathrooms and have just kept handwaving them all away as being "not real trans" is the problem. None of us should have to go through this process of showing you evidence over and over again until you finally concede that something you *believe* doesn't happen is actually really happening. One instance should have been enough - but ever time you've been given an example you've just dismissed it for one reason or another. Then you take a break from the thread, and you come back and make the same claim of "it never happens" all over again.

In 95% of the interactions I've had with you, I *like* you, and I respect you, and I think you're probably a pretty cool person that I'd enjoy hanging with IRL. But on this particular topic... buddy... I'm really starting to feel like you just don't give a crap about females. And I'm really struggling to not get entirely and completely pissed off about it.

 

[Thermal]

Dude, I am friends with a handful of transgender identified males. Some of them are lovely people. But the ones I know and respect ALSO respect female humans - including my own niecephew. Some of them use female bathrooms (which I don't agree with but also don't make a bug deal of with them), but NONE of them use female showers or changing rooms or spas. Because every single one of them accepts and understands that they remain male regardless of their personal feelings, and none of them think it should be acceptable for them to get their dicks out in a female intimate space.

You can't really say that you tolerate "overriding sex segregation" if you personally like the transwoman, then berate me for believing that it should apply to others, who are just as well.liked by their friends as yours are.

And I have been unwavering in areas where nudity is expected should be strictly sex segregated.

The fact that I am friends with some people doesn't make the bad actors magically disappear or evaporate. And it doesn't negate the observable fact that SOME of the people who consider themselves to be transgender actually for realsies are perverts and predators.

What makes the bad actors disappear is reality. We have real data. Offenses don't occur at any higher rates than when under strict sex segregation. The hordes of imposters exploiting self ID don't exist. They don't happen any more than before open door policies.

 

[Thermal]

Yeah, get back to me on Hannah Tubbs too while you're in the business of insisting that nothing like this ever ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ happens.

I will. We can compare before and after policy adaptation rates at your convenience. You do recall that's what I said doesn't happen, right? Assaults don't increase, not don't occur at all.

Oh, wait, I'm having a vision... you have not the foggiest idea what the assault rates were in the towns/school where these incidents took place, do you? If you took the time to collect the stories, certainly you put them in that context, which is what we are talking about? Or were you hoping no one noticed that you didn't? if so, you know the names of the fallacies you have willfully commited. On a skeptics forum.

Oh hey... here, why don't you look into these also?

https://le.utah.gov/interim/2024/pdf/00000577.pdf

Will do. I see a few of the ones posted over and over and over and over. It's almost like you only have that handful to choose from, when you should be pulling hundreds of new tales per day at a minimum. But no. There's the one about a rapist who turned trans years later near the top of the list. Looks like the one with the kid that sexually assaulted in both bathrooms, but posters hers only want to talk about trans stuff. They are unlinked, so if you want to talk about one or more, I'll do the homework on my end, but please don't expect me to spend all night searching based on unlinked headline snippets, Xeroxed and pasted plain and reuploaded.