Cont: The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 32

[Stacyhs]

That is not correct. Vinci was hired by the defence to help get the pair off.
Boemia and Rinaldi were objective scientists who had no qualms or issues in identifying which shoeprints/footprints were RG's and which RS' and which were AK's. Your belief they fiddled the results 'to keep Mignini happy' is delusional. The print on the bathmat does show a hammer toe and Sollecito has a hammer toe at that very point. In addition, it is a foot size 42. Compatible with RS' size. Guede's foot is completely different and three sizes larger. This can be seen with the naked eye.

Following that line of thinking, then Boemia and Rinaldi were hired by the prosecution to help convict the pair.

Why is every prosecution expert "impartial, neutral and entirely objective," while every defense expert is "bent, corrupt, and/or incompetent"? But that's not a conspiracy theory, right?

You are not a print expert so your 'evaluation' as to the print is worthless. And, yes, I'll say it again: if that print were Sollecito's they'd have gotten rid of it and NOT have pointed it out to the police. You can't give a logical, common sense rebuttal to that so you claim they were "trying to put one over" on the police. LOL! That silly response is a good example of sometimes it's better to say nothing at all.

 

[Stacyhs]

I don't believe you. I suspect that in your frantic Googling to try to find some dirt on Prof. Alketbi, you confused him with a racecar driver of the same name who drives in a league that races, among other sportscars, Lamborghinis (although I believe the driver Alketbi races for team Porsche). In any case, now that you can't substantiate the accusation, you're trying to weasel out, as usual, by the lame expedient of claiming that you were just joking. Shame on you.

I'd bet this is what Vixen found:



This is Ali Alketbi from Dubai, not Prof. Alketbi. This guy is an actor /model/personal trainer according to his Instagram page.

 

[Vixen]

Following that line of thinking, then Boemia and Rinaldi were hired by the prosecution to help convict the pair.

Why is every prosecution expert "impartial, neutral and entirely objective," while every defense expert is "bent, corrupt, and/or incompetent"? But that's not a conspiracy theory, right?

You are not a print expert so your 'evaluation' as to the print is worthless. And, yes, I'll say it again: if that print were Sollecito's they'd have gotten rid of it and NOT have pointed it out to the police. You can't give a logical, common sense rebuttal to that so you claim they were "trying to put one over" on the police. LOL! That silly response is a good example of sometimes it's better to say nothing at all.

It was Guede's poop they went to great trouble to point out to the police not the bathmat.

 

[Stacyhs]

This is how it works.

In other words, you CANNOT quote/cite any evidence for your claim that

Vixen said:
Vinci for the defence was reprimanded for using Photoshop to try to make RS' footprint look like RG's.

Into the ASSFACTS bin it goes....

Perugia police asked Rome forensic guys to analyse Ilpotili [_sp] luminol results (this was not Stefanoni this time). Boemia and Rinaldi AIUI are engineering guys with measuring and technical drawing skills, who specialise in analysing shoe and footprints. The idea they were somehow biased in favour of Guede and against AK and RS is so laughable and frankly insulting to their vow of ethics and integrity as forensic scientists. They had to do a presentation of their results in court and be cross-examined. It is crazy to claim they 'did it all for Mignini'.

The defense asked forensic expert Prof/Dr. Vinci to analyze the prints. The idea he was somehow biased in favor of Sollecito and Knox against Guede is so laughable and frankly insulting to his vow of ethics and integrity as a forensic expert and medical doctor. He had to do a presentation of his results in court and be cross-examined. It is crazy to claim he 'did it to help get them off'.

 

[Stacyhs]

It was Guede's poop they went to great trouble to point out to the police not the bathmat.

That's a new one! But, so wrong....

PUBLIC PROSECUTOR - and [Amanda] showed it to you?

MARSI- Yes, she showed me the traces of blood that were present on the bathroom sink, the one next to the room of Meredith, and there were also in the mat, said: "here is dirty", she didn't speak Italian very well...

How much effort did she have to go to in order to point the mat out to Marsi? Had it also sunk out of sight?

I'm still waiting for a plausible explanation as to why she would point out "Sollecito's" bloody footprint to the police. Not that I expect one.

 

[Numbers]

She's also claimed previously that Hellmann was seen driving an expensive car.

Maybe Judge Hellmann and Dr. Salim Khalifa Alketbi share the same Lamborghini.

I'd bet this is what Vixen found:

View attachment 62279

This is Ali Alketbi from Dubai, not Prof. Alketbi. This guy is an actor /model/personal trainer according to his Instagram page.

Vixen and other PGP, being conspiracy theorists, fail to research facts adequately or to comprehend that reality can be complex and simple. According to Wikipedia, the surname Al-Kitebi (or Alketbi) is common in the UAE and originates from the name of a Bedouin Arab tribe.

For example, there is a Dr. Salem Al Ketbi who is a political scientist and analyst and who is not Dr. Salem Khalifa Alketbi the forensic DNA researcher.

See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bani_Qitab

Salem Al Ketbi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Stacyhs]

All that proves is that it is difficult to leave your DNA behind.

Bull. Another claim that is disproved by actual forensic experts.

If you send off for a genealogy test, such as 23+me, or provide one for police, they will ask you to spend quite a long time scraping the inner cheek to ensure a good quality amount of sample material.

I had my DNA tested by Ancestry.com and all I had to do was spit into a vial.

Likewise, as the father of forensic testing said - no it is not Gill - absence of DNA is not proof of absence of person.

No one has said Gill is the 'father of forensic testing'. That was Sir Alec Jeffreys. What Prof. Gill is the 'father' of is LT-DNA profiling.
The absence of two people's DNA, including the absence of any other evidence, IS proof of absence. Especially when the DNA and other forensic evidence of another person is all over the crime scene.

As for cleaning up, you seem to now be claiming, in an effort to shoe horn the facts (pun intended) to an alternative what-if scenario that Guede was hopping along on one foot, the foot with the Nike Outbreak 2 size 11/45 that left the one-sided visible trail straight out of Mez' room and out of the front door. If that was the case Guede would have needed to have been hopping, for reasons best known to himself as he made no other effort to hide his forensic presence.

No, that is YOUR typical misrepresentation. What it shows is that only ONE shoe stepped in blood, thereby leaving a trail.

So, what happened to the other shoe, did he leave it behind? If so where? And why not put it back on after supposedly 'rinsing the blood off his foot'?

The one that had no blood on the bottom? He put it back on and wore it home. He admits he dumped his bloody clothes and Nikes in a dumpster after crossing into Germany.

As with Leopold and Loeb, no matter how clever and perfect a criminal might think their crime, they always overlook something (think Kohberger, leaving the K-Bar sheath behind _DOH!). This is why we have detectives and forensic police because there will almost always be a clue of some sort or other,

If criminals "always overlook something", then how do you explain the multitude of unsolved murders? Who killed JonBenet Ramsey? Who killed Madeleine McCann? And please, don't give me YOUR OPINION on who killed them because they are unsolved. Your OPINION isn't worth diddley-squat.

 

[AmyStrange]

I had my DNA tested by Ancestry.com and all I had to do was spit into a vial.

That's how they nailed Gary Ridgway (the Green River Serial Killer), and all he did was lick an envelope.



ETA: They also took hair samples (with the bulb) for confirmation.

LE can also get DNA from cigarette butts, and when they take a sample in the US, all they do is use a big Q-Tip to swab the inside of your mouth.

-

 

[Numbers]

I had never heard of Alketbi before Stacyhs' mention.

Your reading comprehension issue is showing up in this post. The first mention of Dr Salim K Alketbi, the forensic DNA expert, was in one of my posts, #4996, where I quoted an excerpt from one of his publications. His name was included in the quote as part of the citation, as follows (I've added bolding and underlining to help make the citation and the researcher - author name clear):

DNA Contamination in Crime Scene Investigations: Common Errors, Best Practices, And Insights from a Survey Study
Salem Khalifa Alketbi, Biomed J Sci & Tech Res 58(5)-2024. BJSTR. MS.ID.009223. pages 50970-50982.

 

[TruthCalls]

The reason I keep explaining how luminol works is because you keep asking how come it highlighted footprints but tested negative for blood or DNA in some cases. Massei, unlike you or I, sat through the entire trial. The case was thoroughly reviewed by ten different judges before it came to trial so your firm belief that it was 'all fixed by Mignini' is delusional.

I don't need to sit through a trial to understand that a sample that is TMB negative, Meredith DNA negative, is NOT a sample of Meredith's blood, especially those which contained Amanda's DNA but not Meredith's.

 

[TruthCalls]

That is not correct. Vinci was hired by the defence to help get the pair off. Boemia and Rinaldi were objective scientists who had no qualms or issues in identifying which shoeprints/footprints were RG's and which RS' and which were AK's. Your belief they fiddled the results 'to keep Mignini happy' is delusional. The print on the bathmat does show a hammer toe and Sollecito has a hammer toe at that very point. In addition, it is a foot size 42. Compatible with RS' size. Guede's foot is completely different and three sizes larger. This can be seen with the naked eye.

That is not correct. Boemia and Rinaldi were hired by the prosecution to get them convicted. Vinci is an objective scientist who had no qualms or issues identifying prints in an impartial and precise manner, regardless of who made them. Your belief that Vinci was bought off is delusional. The print on the mat shows a toe print where Raffaele's hammertoe wouldn't. In addition, when measured correctly, using the proper reference points, the dimensions are similar to Guede's but not Raffaele's. This can be seen with the naked eye.

 

[TruthCalls]

It is all in the court transcripts. It was widely reported by various pundits.

Then by all means, who was testifying and on what date. You claiming it was said carried zero credibility, and I have never cared for what pundits say.

I keep explaining what was revealed by the luminol but when I do you respond you already know, so why keep asking for an explanation of how the courts had objective, scientific verifiable results as to the pattern of footprints pertaining to the murder.

Don't conflate the issue of whether the Luminol samples were Meredith's blood with whether there was a clean-up. The two issues are separate arguments, of which you are wrong on both.

A sample that tests negative using TMB is not blood. Even Stefanoni testified to that. Further, six of the nine also did not contain Meredith's DNA. Without further tests to prove otherwise, these tests definitively confirm BARD that those samples were not Meredith's blood, and therefore, they confirm Luminol was reacting with something else.

A bloody crime scene that has been cleaned will either reveal streaking and swirls consistent with a cleaning, or it will reveal nothing if sufficient bleach was used. The lack of any streaking or swirls while still lighting up with Luminol confirms the site was not cleaned.

You just can't accept reality. You want an alternative universe in which Guede is hopping

I've already corrected you on this several times... not hopping, no blood on the sole of one shoe.

around pretending to be RS and somehow squeezing his size 45 feet into Ladies size 37 ACIS trainers.

And BTW, I noticed you're still avoiding addressing the list of eight mistakes wrt the clasp, and identifying what and where they supposedly cleaned up.

 

[Numbers]

Then by all means, who was testifying and on what date. You claiming it was said carried zero credibility, and I have never cared for what pundits say.

Don't conflate the issue of whether the Luminol samples were Meredith's blood with whether there was a clean-up. The two issues are separate arguments, of which you are wrong on both.

A sample that tests negative using TMB is not blood. Even Stefanoni testified to that. Further, six of the nine also did not contain Meredith's DNA. Without further tests to prove otherwise, these tests definitively confirm BARD that those samples were not Meredith's blood, and therefore, they confirm Luminol was reacting with something else.

A bloody crime scene that has been cleaned will either reveal streaking and swirls consistent with a cleaning, or it will reveal nothing if sufficient bleach was used. The lack of any streaking or swirls while still lighting up with Luminol confirms the site was not cleaned.

I've already corrected you on this several times... not hopping, no blood on the sole of one shoe.

And BTW, I noticed you're still avoiding addressing the list of eight mistakes wrt the clasp, and identifying what and where they supposedly cleaned up.

As you indicate, a postive luminol test that tests negative to TMB cannot be blood. In terms of probative value, the positive luminol test that is not confirmed by a positve TMB test is a false positive.

Some may have difficulty understanding that the luminol reaction is not specific to blood. Nor is horseradish peroxidase the only other substance that will generate a luminol false positive. The literature indicates that some metals, including iron and copper, can result in luminol chemifluorescence. Perugia is located in Umbria, Italy. Chemical analyses of the soil of Umbria shows the presence of iron (in iron oxide) as well as other metals in various minerals.* It's possible that the false positives observed were the result of small quantities of soil tracked onto the cottage floor. However, we - and a court - don't need to know exactly what caused the false positives; it's enough to know that they are not true positives - not blood - and thus not probative.

* Some sources claim that the pigment "umber" is named after Umbria. (The current primary commercial source is Cyprus.)

Umber - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Umber is a general designation for a sedimentary mineral substance containing between 5 to 20% manganese oxides and hydroxides and a larger percentage of iron oxides. The higher content of manganese oxides compared to ochres is responsible for the brownish colour.

Umber - ColourLex

Umber has been known since the 16th century and pigment analyses show its use by Rembrandt and Vermeer. It is a mixture of iron and manganese oxides.

colourlex.com

THE MINERALOGY OF SOME SOILS FROM CENTRAL ITALY

paperzz.com

 

[Vixen]

Bull. Another claim that is disproved by actual forensic experts.


I had my DNA tested by Ancestry.com and all I had to do was spit into a vial.


No one has said Gill is the 'father of forensic testing'. That was Sir Alec Jeffreys. What Prof. Gill is the 'father' of is LT-DNA profiling.
The absence of two people's DNA, including the absence of any other evidence, IS proof of absence. Especially when the DNA and other forensic evidence of another person is all over the crime scene.

No, that is YOUR typical misrepresentation. What it shows is that only ONE shoe stepped in blood, thereby leaving a trail.


The one that had no blood on the bottom? He put it back on and wore it home. He admits he dumped his bloody clothes and Nikes in a dumpster after crossing into Germany.


If criminals "always overlook something", then how do you explain the multitude of unsolved murders? Who killed JonBenet Ramsey? Who killed Madeleine McCann? And please, don't give me YOUR OPINION on who killed them because they are unsolved. Your OPINION isn't worth diddley-squat.

There is plenty of evidence in those cases. Just not enough to bring charges.

 

[Vixen]

Then by all means, who was testifying and on what date. You claiming it was said carried zero credibility, and I have never cared for what pundits say.

Don't conflate the issue of whether the Luminol samples were Meredith's blood with whether there was a clean-up. The two issues are separate arguments, of which you are wrong on both.

A sample that tests negative using TMB is not blood. Even Stefanoni testified to that. Further, six of the nine also did not contain Meredith's DNA. Without further tests to prove otherwise, these tests definitively confirm BARD that those samples were not Meredith's blood, and therefore, they confirm Luminol was reacting with something else.

A bloody crime scene that has been cleaned will either reveal streaking and swirls consistent with a cleaning, or it will reveal nothing if sufficient bleach was used. The lack of any streaking or swirls while still lighting up with Luminol confirms the site was not cleaned.

I've already corrected you on this several times... not hopping, no blood on the sole of one shoe.

And BTW, I noticed you're still avoiding addressing the list of eight mistakes wrt the clasp, and identifying what and where they supposedly cleaned up.

There are mistakes in any major criminal investigation. Criminal justice works in favour of the accused. But a mistake such as omitting to collect a key piece of evidence due to an oversight - human error - shouldn't mean a heinous murderer gets away with their crime. That sort of reasoning seems to be what the PIP cling onto.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

There are mistakes in any major criminal investigation. Criminal justice works in favour of the accused. But a mistake such as omitting to collect a key piece of evidence due to an oversight - human error - shouldn't mean a heinous murder gets away with their crime. That sort of reasoning seems to be what the PIP cling onto.

Ironic that you don't see it is precisely the reasoning you cling onto.

"If only this evidence had been collected competently, and if the person I want convicted was involved, then it might have shown that."

Well, it wasn't. So it doesn't tell us either way.

 

[Vixen]

Ironic that you don't see it is precisely the reasoning you cling onto.

"If only this evidence had been collected competently, and if the person I want convicted was involved, then it might have shown that."

Well, it wasn't. So it doesn't tell us either way.

It wasn't collected at the time but was collected six weeks later. The cottage was sealed off during that time, with only authorised personnel in protective clothing allowed entrance. His full profile DNA didn't change in nature during that time. It certainly didn't fly in from under the locked door. The bra clasp isn't the only evidence against RS, there is also the footprint on the bathmat, the luminol footprints in the corridor, his two false alibis, which he has never corrected, his refusal to take the stand, his switching off his phone ahead of the murder and not switching it back on until 5:00. Lied about receiving his father's message at 11:00, lied about being on the computer all evening, lied about pricking Mez' hand with the identified murder weapon, lied about the nature of his 'flooding' in the apartment, claimed Knox went out alone and arrived back at about 1:00am, three of the laptops at the cottage were fried. Lumumba's, tested in between those at the same time was perfectly fine, so not the fault of the forensic electronic guys, claimed he didn't wake up until 10:00 next morning, when records show he received hs father's message at 6:00 and the pair played fight club and come as you are, lied to police about his whereabouts the afternoon before between 4:00 and six, lied and was evasive about going into the old town as of that time. Had a rich father who could hire a barrister with - ahem influence - who accordingly managed to make 'water flow uphill' for his son. But the evidence and the facts established remain.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

It wasn't collected at the time but ...

This wishful thinking isn't going to turn it into evidence against those innocent people, who are only guilty in your imagination. Nor is any of the other debunked non-evidence going to do that, however many times you drag it up.

 

[Vixen]

This wishful thinking isn't going to turn it into evidence against those innocent people, who are only guilty in your imagination. Nor is any of the other debunked non-evidence going to do that, however many times you drag it up.

It hasn't been debunked. As I said, facts remain facts, no matter how much you claim otherwise.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

You should read this thread sometime. It's an eye-opener.