Cont: The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 32

[Disbelief]

>+3sds ahead. I am usually punished for it so I have resigned myself to being abused for spoiling people's fondly held beliefs.

But clever enough to leave absolutely ZERO trace of himself in Filomena's room. And commit a burglary -by turning over two drawers of clothing - without taking anything AFTER the murder. AFTER the murder he was dripping blood everywhere yet there are no bloody shoeprints in Filomena's room. But we see his shoe footsteps in the hallway, heading straight out of the murder room and out of the front door. Presumably these shoe prints aren't in the victim's blood but some kind of root vegetable juice that causes luminol to light up, rather like AK' and RS' BARE footprints...several of which facing Mez' door as if to lock it. And on the bathmat. A footprint size 42 with a clear hammer toe... that matches RS' perfectly.

Yet there's no trace of AK or RS in Meredith's room where you say they murdered her, but you brush that off. Try being consistent for once, even though you are so far ahead of everyone...

 

[Stacyhs]

First name terms?

"Mez"

Do you think she'll be sharing any of her profits filthy lucre with you, her pro bono advocate and useful <ahem!> fan?

What a truly bizarre comment. Even for you.

 

[Stacyhs]

Oh well, that proves the Perugia police in the Kercher case were also corrupt. Logic not a strong point?

No. Reading comprehension not a strong point?

The hypocrisy of your comment is gob smacking when you've accused every acquitting judge, every defense or court appointed forensic expert, and every defense witness of being "bent", "incompetent", "paid off" and/or "lying".

 

[TruthCalls]

A professional burglar or shoplifter NEVER hangs on to their own blag. The first thing they do is get rid of it to a fence or flog it off in a pub. The fact Guede was in possession of a stolen laptop in no way indicates he was the one who stole it in a burglary. In that particular burglary at the lawyers office, the burglar entered via a first floor balcony, exactly similar to the one by the boys entrance in via Pergola 7. No-one home, no-one to disturb you, no neck-breaking twelve-and-a-half-feet climb up a sheer wall. In addition, nothing was taken apart from Mez' belongings, so it was a crime personally targetting Mez. The only desperate need to say Guede was a professional burglar (this is conjecture and not factual) is to make it seem feasible the perp was a burglar who came in via Filomena's window and to challenge the fact that the burglary was staged. I worked in Proceeds of Crime (insolvency practice) for eleven years and the first thing professional thieves do is get rid of it PDQ ASAP. We chased money launderers right across the globe and located their millions of pounds worth of criminal proceeds in a Dutch offshore Caribbean tax haven. There was no way these guys would be caught with the misappropriated funds on their person or in their personal accounts. It is quite likely RG acquired the laptop cheaply from someone, as he claimed. As for Taramantano, he only came forward in retrospect. He didn't identify Guede, he said it was a Black guy. That doesn't mean it was Guede! In a town the size of Perugia, there will be dozens of burglaries. They are not all committed by the same person! As Guede had never been done for burglary before and had no criminal record, I don't think you can aver with certainty as Knox followers do that he was a prolific burglar and the same guy who broke and entered into the lawyers' offices and the same guy whom Taramantano claims to have seen in his apartment. It's is vaguely possible it was Guede but all we have is conjecture and speculation. I prefer hard fact. The lawyer himself said the burglar in his office knew exactly where to switch off the burglar alarm, which he himself was not aware of, and the main things stolen were USB sticks, and a whole pile of documents strewn on the floor as though the perp was looking for a particular piece of legal documentation. He didn't say it but he seemed to be hinting it was an 'inside job'. As for the Milan nursery, RG did stay there overnight. A burglar would have done his thing and left ASAP. It came out in court that an employee at the nursery was at the same party RG said he attended and it was she who told him he could stay there the night as the door lock was faulty. She told him how to get in. The proprietor confirmed it was not breaking and entering and that RG got in the way he said he got in. He was not charged with going equipped to commit a burglary so what was found in his backpack was not considered burglars tools. Sure there is a possibility they were burglars tools but again pure conjecture that suits the defence narrative to try to make the mise-en-scène a real burglary scene and not a staged one. But as Guede was found with a glass-breaking hammer why would he have needed to find a huge slab of limestone weighing almost ten pounds, or four kilograms. That is completely excessive. Then there is the claim that because he was adopted aged five as an asylum seeker from the Côte d'Ivoire and had a difficult adolescence with his wealthy adopted family, therefore it is obvious - they claim - that he must be the sole perp. That type of logic might sit well with some but others expect more corroboration than the fact he is ethnic African. The objective impartial scientific evidence puts Knox at the crime scene via her DNA mixed with Mez'. The fact people do not understand DNA analysis doesn't obviate it. So, you rely on intuition. You believe you can tell who did it by outward appearances and by fitting an 'alternative' story to that constructed by professional detectives and scientists. Myself, I prefer what was tested and tried in court, weighing up ALL of the evidence from ALL of the parties and then - only then - coming to a verdict. What other system of justice is there? Do we really want cases tried by PR agencies writing sensationalist clickbait material or should we stick to what has been tried and tested over literally hundreds of years?

You remind me of people who have been in multiple car accidents, but always insist it's someone else's fault.

Guede is in possession of stolen items from a law office (and BTW, no one ever said he was a professional burglar). Those items are found while he's being searched as a result of having broken into a school and getting caught. Oh, and let's not forget the women's gold watch that matched the description of his neighbor, whose place was robbed and set on fire. Then we have Christian and his girl friend. Are they lying, cause they both claimed it was Guede in their place. And then, of course, we have the cottage. Anyone who honestly thinks Guede had plans with Meredith is either an idiot or in denial. Sorry, but he firmly established a pattern of break-in's that any impartial, neutral and entirely objective person can see.

"The objective impartial scientific evidence puts Knox at the crime scene via her DNA mixed with Mez Meredith." Um, no, it does nothing of the kind. DNA can not be dated so there's no way to know when the DNA was deposited. There were a total of five samples which had both Amanda and Meredith's DNA profile. Three from the small bathroom, which they both used daily. Finding both their profiles in that room, especially given the way the samples were collected, proved only one thing - the SP had no idea how to collect samples. The one from the hallway between their bedrooms is irrelevant, as they both walk in that space all the time. And the one in Filomena's room, found after 46 days, after the cottage had been turned upside down, is at best something of a mystery. Of course, what really does matter is the complete lack of a forensic trace in Meredith's bedroom, where the sexual assault and murder took place. There we find Guede and Meredith. No surprise there.

 

[TruthCalls]

Yet there's no trace of AK or RS in Meredith's room where you say they murdered her, but you brush that off. Try being consistent for once, even though you are so far ahead of everyone...

Let's not forget, the SP took a grand total of two - TWO - samples from Filomena's room during the initial investigation. Imagine that.. no trace of Guede found in ALL TWO SAMPLES. Talk about an exhaustive search for evidence! Clearly evidence Guede didn't come in this way.....

 

[Stacyhs]

Mez is the name her family consents to being used. It was used in court.

Amanda is the name her family consents to being used. It was used in court.

We don't usually refer to convicted criminals by first name terms. Even Ronnie Biggs was always called 'Biggs' or 'Ronald Biggs' .

AHEM:
Micheli CLEARS Rudy of theft of the phones, as he rules that the phones were taken on return to the scene.
Micheli CLEARS Rudy of theft of cash and cards from Mez' bag.

You might want to inform every single author of every book written about this case, including Follain and Nadeau, that they should not have referred to Guede as just "Rudy" in their books.

Odd that after years of referring to Knox as "Amanda" by almost everyone on this forum, you choose me now to criticize for calling Amanda "Amanda". Reeks of desperation.


https://internationalskeptics.com/f...ffaele-sollecito-part-32.363048/post-14595329

 

[Stacyhs]

But they did document it. The witness statement was typed up and an English translation provided; it was signed by Knox as being true to the best of her knowledge.

Typing up those two statements which were their words, not Amanda's, is NOT a written transcript of the interrogation. Don't be so obviously disingenuous.

This was after just 90 minutes in the Questura. The etymology of the word 'villain' originally referred to peasants with no legal status other than being in the service of the lords of the manor, derived from Old French brought over by French-speaking William the Conqueror. Hence these guys lived by their wits and wiles and were seen as n'e'er-do-wells by their rulers. Now the Police are public servants albeit insular to themselves in most western countries. They really do not wake up in the morning thinking who shall we falsely accuse today? They have oversight, regulations and standards. Italy is pretty much a police state, so yeah, there was a lot of undercover intelligence going on. Donnino wasn't just a 'civil servant' she was actively listening in on wiretaps which is something that would need a warrant in the UK or someone working for the intelligence agencies, without.

Why do you waste your and our time with such irrelevancies?

They knew Knox and Sollecito were involved because of the undercover stuff.

LOL! Really? Then why was nothing, absolutely NOTHING, presented in court from any of this 'undercover stuff'? Nothing from the wiretaps on their phones or in the questura waiting room was presented in court as evidence of guilt.

Building a case to present in court was the hard part, given Sollecito's <ahem> family connections ('honour bound' and omerta and all that <nudge nudge wink wink>). and ability to buy their way out of it via mafia-friendly Bongiorno and hiring a US PR Agency for Knox ('The best investment I ever made' ~ Curt Knox).

Oh, Jesus Christ. You really are a broken record with this Mafia and PR machine crap.
What next? Another unsupported claim that RS was hobnobbing with the mafia in the DR? That Dr. Sollecito went to Rocco's memorial?

 

[Stacyhs]

Some will get very angry about this and will prefer fictionalised revised 'documentary series' which paint Knox as the victim here, rather than the true victim, her prey, Meredith Kercher, of whom Knox celebrates having got away with it. Enjoy the fiction. Myself, I prefer reality.

REALITY: No evidence places Knox in the room where Kercher was violently assaulted and murdered.
REALITY: No evidence places Knox in the bathroom the night of Nov. 1.
REALITY: Multiple forensic evidence places Guede in the bedroom where Kercher was murdered the night of Nov. 1.

You prefer your own version of reality.

 

[Stacyhs]

BTW the courts final ruling is that Guede did not inflict the fatal wound.

BTW, the courts' final ruling that Guede did not inflict the fatal wound was in 2010, when AK and RS stood provisionally convicted and BEFORE Kercher's alleged DNA on the knife was ruled scientifically unreliable and non-inculpatory.

BTW, the Supreme Court's final ruling is that Knox and Sollecito did not inflict any wounds.

So, if none of these three did it, who did? It has to be the OTHER person who left his DNA, bloody footprints, fingerprints, etc. Oh, wait, no evidence of anyone but Guede was in that bedroom. What a conundrum.

 

[Stacyhs]

Perhaps look up the legal definition of exonerated. Being found 'not guilty' is 'acquitted' not 'exonerated'.

According to the Italian legal website "La Legge per Tutti" (The Law for Everyone):

In conclusion: the acquittal for not having committed the fact completely exonerates the accused, who has nothing to do with the crime being tried.

Precisely because this type of absolution enshrines the total innocence of the accused from all guilt, it is said that it falls within the hypothesis of "absolution with full formula". "

Therefore, under Italian law, Knox and Sollecito were found to be legally "exonerated", "innocent", not just "not guilty". I suggest you contact author Mariano Acquaviva who

Obtained in 2011 the master’s degree in Law with full marks at the University of Salerno, then enrolled in the Graduate School for Legal Professions at the same university, also obtaining the highest vote. He currently practices the legal profession as a lawyer registered at the court of Salerno and collaborates with several law firms,focusing mainly on criminal and civil law.

Only a head of state can pass an exoneration and grant a pardon.

Um...no. Only a court of law can exonerate a person. Exoneration does not require a pardon because the person is cleared of having committed the crime. A pardon is totally different:

"Exoneration involves proving someone's innocence, typically after a conviction has been overturned due to new evidence. A pardon, however, is the forgiveness of a crime by a figure of authority and does not imply innocence."

Even in the USA it is called 'vacated' and no compensation is due.

Oh, dear. Wrong again. People exonerated of wrongful convictions can sue for compensation from the state and/or federal government.

Compensation for wrongful conviction varies by jurisdiction, but many places offer financial remedies to individuals who have been exonerated after being wrongfully imprisoned. In the U.S., 38 states and the federal government have laws that provide compensation, though eligibility and amounts can differ significantly.

So if anyone tells you Knox and Sollecito were exonerated, they are lying to you or trying to manipulate your world view.

You might want to tell these Italian sources that they are lying or trying to manipulate our world view.
"Scagionare" = " to exonerate"

A dieci anni dalla sentenza definitiva che l'ha scagionata, che fine ha fatto Amanda Knox e come vive oggi insieme ai suoi figli? Il 27 marzo 2015, la Corte Suprema scagionava definitivamente Amanda Knox per l’omicidio della studentessa britannica Meredith Kercher.

Un crimine per il quale la Knox è stata prima condannata, poi scagionata in appello

Condannata per l'omicidio della sua compagna di stanza Meredith Kercher nel 2007. Per poi essere liberata nel 2011 e completamente scagionata nel 2015.​

 

[Stacyhs]

This is where I am ahead of you.

But clever enough to leave absolutely ZERO trace of himself in Filomena's room.

You mean the room where only FIVE samples were taken? Yet Knox was even more clever to leave absolutely ZERO traces of herself in Meredith's room where hundreds of samples were taken. Oh, wait...she was SO clever that she could do a bleach clean-up by differentiating her invisible DNA from Guede's.

And commit a burglary -by turning over two drawers of clothing - without taking anything AFTER the murder.

Oh, dear. What two drawers were overturned? The only drawers were in the nightstand, and they were not opened.



The clothes were dumped from the wardrobe, which had some shelves.



There is no evidence the burglary was AFTER the murder.

AFTER the murder he was dripping blood everywhere yet there are no bloody shoeprints in Filomena's room. But we see his shoe footsteps in the hallway, heading straight out of the murder room and out of the front door.

Yes, we see them in Kercher's bedroom and hallway because he broke into Filomena's room, rifled through Filomena's room probably looking for cash to pay his rent, BEFORE the murder.
A piece of broken window glass was found in Meredith's room indicating that window was broken BEFORE Guede murdered Kercher.

Presumably these shoe prints aren't in the victim's blood but some kind of root vegetable juice that causes luminol to light up,

All Guede's shoeprints tested positive for blood and Kercher's DNA. Or did they test negative in your reality?

rather like AK' and RS' BARE footprints...

That you cannot accept that ALL the BARE footprints assigned to Amanda and Sollecito tested negative for blood is further evidence of your ...ahem... alternate reality. And, please, don't claim that the bathmat print was Sollecito's or we'll have to have that "In what logical world would they point out HIS bloody footprint to the police" discussion yet again.

several of which facing Mez' door as if to lock it.

There was ONE footprint assigned to Knox (but not proven with DNA) facing her room which could have been left at any time and which tested negative for blood. "As if to lock it" is speculation.

And on the bathmat. A footprint size 42 with a clear hammer toe... that matches RS' perfectly.

 

[Stacyhs]

Let's not forget, the SP took a grand total of two - TWO - samples from Filomena's room during the initial investigation. Imagine that.. no trace of Guede found in ALL TWO SAMPLES. Talk about an exhaustive search for evidence! Clearly evidence Guede didn't come in this way.....

There were five samples:
Two from the floor, the rock, two from the window.

 

[Vixen]

Wrong question. It proves your pet theory of how Guede's burglary was staged is wrong. Yet you falsely claim the forensics support you and you're just being objective. Plainly not.

Not my theory, it is the conclusion of the courts.

 

[Vixen]

You remind me of people who have been in multiple car accidents, but always insist it's someone else's fault.

Guede is in possession of stolen items from a law office (and BTW, no one ever said he was a professional burglar).

Knox did, in her self-serving Netflix film.

Those items are found while he's being searched as a result of having broken into a school and getting caught. Oh, and let's not forget the women's gold watch that matched the description of his neighbor, whose place was robbed and set on fire. Then we have Christian and his girl friend. Are they lying, cause they both claimed it was Guede in their place. And then, of course, we have the cottage. Anyone who honestly thinks Guede had plans with Meredith is either an idiot or in denial. Sorry, but he firmly established a pattern of break-in's that any impartial, neutral and entirely objective person can see.

Nobody knows as none of it was corroborated

"The objective impartial scientific evidence puts Knox at the crime scene via her DNA mixed with Mez Meredith." Um, no, it does nothing of the kind. DNA can not be dated so there's no way to know when the DNA was deposited. There were a total of five samples which had both Amanda and Meredith's DNA profile. Three from the small bathroom, which they both used daily. Finding both their profiles in that room, especially given the way the samples were collected, proved only one thing - the SP had no idea how to collect samples. The one from the hallway between their bedrooms is irrelevant, as they both walk in that space all the time. And the one in Filomena's room, found after 46 days, after the cottage had been turned upside down, is at best something of a mystery. Of course, what really does matter is the complete lack of a forensic trace in Meredith's bedroom, where the sexual assault and murder took place. There we find Guede and Meredith. No surprise there.

That is a slogan; a PIP soundbite mantra. Dogma. Remember? That is just a handy PIP factoid. Something the PIP made up as it sounds good. Remember? It's not actually true! Evidence in the murder room of the presence of AK and RS: 1. There is the ladies size 37 trainers imprint on the pillow beneath the body. 2. RS' full-profile DNA is on the bra clasp hook, which was also under the body. 3. There is Knox' partial DNA on the bra fabric, which made one of her counsel walk off the case shortly after the result came out. 4. There were two long strands of fairish hair: one gripped in the victim's hand in rigor mortis and one across Mez' bag. 5. Knox' table lamp was on the floor under Mez' bed. Yes, HER freaking lamp was on Mez' floor. Even Judge Massei leant over to question Knox in person about this. 6. the person who ransacked Filomena's room is the same person who trailed a shard of glass into the murder room. 7. the same person who scattered bits of paper and cards after the murder and locked the door. THAT is just some of the evidence of the duo's presence in the room. BTW when you enter a room and none of your DNA is found after you've exited, does that mean you were absent from the room? Even Gill says absence of evidence does not mean absence of person.

 

[Vixen]

Amanda is the name her family consents to being used. It was used in court.

AHEM:
Micheli CLEARS Rudy of theft of the phones, as he rules that the phones were taken on return to the scene.
Micheli CLEARS Rudy of theft of cash and cards from Mez' bag.

You might want to inform every single author of every book written about this case, including Follain and Nadeau, that they should not have referred to Guede as just "Rudy" in their books.

Odd that after years of referring to Knox as "Amanda" by almost everyone on this forum, you choose me now to criticize for calling Amanda "Amanda". Reeks of desperation.


https://internationalskeptics.com/f...ffaele-sollecito-part-32.363048/post-14595329

It was your cringy reference to AK's new series that was sick-buckety.

 

[Vixen]

REALITY: No evidence places Knox in the room where Kercher was violently assaulted and murdered.
REALITY: No evidence places Knox in the bathroom the night of Nov. 1.
REALITY: Multiple forensic evidence places Guede in the bedroom where Kercher was murdered the night of Nov. 1.

You prefer your own version of reality.

Completely untrue, and you know it. Therefore, you are knowingly, shall we say, less than frank.

 

[Vixen]

BTW, the courts' final ruling that Guede did not inflict the fatal wound was in 2010, when AK and RS stood provisionally convicted and BEFORE Kercher's alleged DNA on the knife was ruled scientifically unreliable and non-inculpatory.

BTW, the Supreme Court's final ruling is that Knox and Sollecito did not inflict any wounds.

So, if none of these three did it, who did? It has to be the OTHER person who left his DNA, bloody footprints, fingerprints, etc. Oh, wait, no evidence of anyone but Guede was in that bedroom. What a conundrum.

Er, if the knife fits..HIS knife, HER DNA.

 

[Vixen]

According to the Italian legal website "La Legge per Tutti" (The Law for Everyone):


Therefore, under Italian law, Knox and Sollecito were found to be legally "exonerated", "innocent", not just "not guilty". I suggest you contact author Mariano Acquaviva who




Um...no. Only a court of law can exonerate a person. Exoneration does not require a pardon because the person is cleared of having committed the crime. A pardon is totally different:

"Exoneration involves proving someone's innocence, typically after a conviction has been overturned due to new evidence. A pardon, however, is the forgiveness of a crime by a figure of authority and does not imply innocence."

Oh, dear. Wrong again. People exonerated of wrongful convictions can sue for compensation from the state and/or federal government.



You might want to tell these Italian sources that they are lying or trying to manipulate our world view.
"Scagionare" = " to exonerate"

Oh dear.

 

[AmyStrange]

Your ignorance about the bra clasp alone is proof enough for me to suspect that you're not really a woman, otherwise your sex is none of my business.


-

 

[Vixen]

You mean the room where only FIVE samples were taken? Yet Knox was even more clever to leave absolutely ZERO traces of herself in Meredith's room where hundreds of samples were taken. Oh, wait...she was SO clever that she could do a bleach clean-up by differentiating her invisible DNA from Guede's.


Oh, dear. What two drawers were overturned? The only drawers were in the nightstand, and they were not opened.
View attachment 62031


The clothes were dumped from the wardrobe, which had some shelves.

View attachment 62032

There is no evidence the burglary was AFTER the murder.

Yes, we see them in Kercher's bedroom and hallway because he broke into Filomena's room, rifled through Filomena's room probably looking for cash to pay his rent, BEFORE the murder.
A piece of broken window glass was found in Meredith's room indicating that window was broken BEFORE Guede murdered Kercher.


All Guede's shoeprints tested positive for blood and Kercher's DNA. Or did they test negative in your reality?


That you cannot accept that ALL the BARE footprints assigned to Amanda and Sollecito tested negative for blood is further evidence of your ...ahem... alternate reality. And, please, don't claim that the bathmat print was Sollecito's or we'll have to have that "In what logical world would they point out HIS bloody footprint to the police" discussion yet again.




There was ONE footprint assigned to Knox (but not proven with DNA) facing her room which could have been left at any time and which tested negative for blood. "As if to lock it" is speculation.

The two shelves, clearly the Italian didn't translate well. It is a fact the staged scene took place AFTER the murder. This is because the cards and paper scattered over Filomena's room are also scattered on TOP of the duvet which is on TOP of the dead body. Ipso facto post-murder.