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Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

Matthew Best said:
You're almost there. So close!
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Well, how very dare women for wanting to have something to themselves to which men are not invited.

ANY women who want to have meeting groups without biological men are their targets.
ANY women who hold the view that sex matters are their targets.
ANY women who refuse to give up their safe spaces for biological men are their targets.
ANY women who refuse to be cowed by transgender activists are their targets.

If we carry on down a path towards a Society where biological sex is irrelevant, a Society in which you can be whatever gender you happen to feel like today, a Society in which no-one is allowed to refer to you by the "wrong" pronoun, or make a joke at your expense, then we face the very real danger of that Society becoming boring and humourless. Religion will be replaced by Compliance as the opiate of the masses as the populace are stripped of their individuality, in a society where diversity of opinion will not exist. Every member will become afraid to say or do anything, or show any dissent for fear of angering the Great God of Gender Ideology while our freedom to express, innovate and be creative will have long since been sacrificed on the Altar of Trans-Activism.
 
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I hesitate to post Youtube links from gbnews.com. but this is about Stroud Pride. Its an excellent interview with Andrew Doyle in which he explains just how homophobic the transgender community is.

I hope Thermal will watch this with an open mind... but I'm not holding my breath!

 
I have just caught up with John Oliver’s episode on trans women athletes. I like Oliver a lot, but his treatment of the issue was pathetic. He even trotted out the argument seen in this thread that Michael Phelps was much better than his male competitors, so………. ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ what?

Pathetic cherry picking with no regard for woman athletes. He even brought up the Lia Thomas issue with absolutely no understanding of the issues involved.
 
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lionking said:
I have just caught up with John Oliver’s episode on trans women athletes. I like Oliver a lot, but his treatment of the issue was pathetic. He even trotted out the argument seen in this thread that Michael Phelps was much better than his male competitors, so………. ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ what?

Pathetic cherry picking with no regard for woman athletes. He even brought up the Lia Thomas issue with absolutely no understanding of the issues involved.
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Slightly tangential, but I was at the England junior athletics finals last year, watching my daughter race. The winner of the U15 boys 100m that day was a 14-year old who ran 10.50 seconds (a few weeks later, he ran 10.30). That time would have put him comfortably ahead of the women's Olympic gold medal time, run a couple of weeks later.

For that kind of explosive power sport (I've not checked for other sports), 14 seems to be the age where the best junior male athletes overtake women's world record times.
 
Mashuna said:
Slightly tangential, but I was at the England junior athletics finals last year, watching my daughter race. The winner of the U15 boys 100m that day was a 14-year old who ran 10.50 seconds (a few weeks later, he ran 10.30). That time would have put him comfortably ahead of the women's Olympic gold medal time, run a couple of weeks later.

For that kind of explosive power sport (I've not checked for other sports), 14 seems to be the age where the best junior male athletes overtake women's world record times.
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Yup. Not sure how things are done where you are, but there in a reason why junior rugby in this country is mixed until the age of 13.
 
lionking said:
I have just caught up with John Oliver’s episode on trans women athletes. I like Oliver a lot, but his treatment of the issue was pathetic. He even trotted out the argument seen in this thread that Michael Phelps was much better than his male competitors, so………. ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ what?

Pathetic cherry picking with no regard for woman athletes. He even brought up the Lia Thomas issue with absolutely no understanding of the issues involved.
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Yeah .. Oliver is great when he stays in his lane.... US politics and roasting the Fat Orange Turd. Discussing sports and trans issues... Not so much!
 
smartcooky said:
Yeah .. Oliver is great when he stays in his lane.... US politics and roasting the Fat Orange Turd. Discussing sports and trans issues... Not so much!
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So many people see sports as not important at all in the grand scheme of things. Just ask people who make a living out of sport.
 
Thermal said:
Also, regarding the Sistas public statement about how they are "no for real" inclusive (yes, this is actually the sugar coated version they defend themselves with):

"People registered male at birth (regardless of gender identity), are excluded from our organising committee, our Salons and some of our events."

brightonsisters.wordpress.com

Mythbusters

In the past months, Sisters Salon and our organisers have been subjected to a series of malicious communications. Those engaged in the targeted harassment of our working group have neither taken th…
brightonsisters.wordpress.com brightonsisters.wordpress.com
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It's a group for females, why do you find it objectionable that they exclude males?
 
smartcooky said:
...I hope Thermal will watch this with an open mind... but I'm not holding my breath!
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16 minute youtube vid. Like a lot of posters, I don't waste a lot of time watching interminable yt vids because they invariably are a waste of time, unless I have reason to believe there is a payoff. The summation seems to be why trans groups have been locking horns with LGB groups, which arguments we are all long aware of. Is there anything else of content in this, and if so, can you extract the one or two sentences of it and save us the other wasted 15 1/2 minutes of viewing time?
 
Thermal said:
I don't. Why do you ask?

I pointed out why a radical trans group would find them objectionable.
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You implied that they were Nazis and that it was their own fault that their meeting was disrupted. You said that their clear statement about inclusion of females was "sugar-coating".

Your argument dripped with disdain for those dreadful women wanting to discuss women's health during an NHS funded meeting.

Disrupting that meeting meant students had their exam revision interrupted, kids had to be brought out of the creche (which was undoubtedly distressing) and approximately £1000 of fire service public money was wasted in sending tenders to the site.
 
Agatha said:
You implied that they were Nazis and that it was their own fault that their meeting was disrupted. You said that their clear statement about inclusion of females was "sugar-coating".

Your argument dripped with disdain for those dreadful women wanting to discuss women's health during an NHS funded meeting.
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Wasn't my intent. Others were trying to dishonestly frame this as some kind of random attack, and it's pretty clear these groups had a history, that was the actual cause of the problem. Sisters very,very clearly says that transwomen are not women and are not welcome in the majority of their activities. That's actually fine by me. But there is no reason to take the group out of context like it was an out-of-the-blue terrorist strike.

Yes, the statement was 'sugar coated', and they still came right out and said they are trans-exclusionary (in any practical sense). That would make a trans activist see them as a nazi, and feel justified in protesting anything this group did.
Agatha said:
Disrupting that meeting meant students had their exam revision interrupted, kids had to be brought out of the creche (which was undoubtedly distressing) and approximately £1000 of fire service public money was wasted in sending tenders to the site.
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Right. As I already said, the organizer was a total jerk, and pulling a fire alarm was, IMO, reason to arrest them. That's not protest; that's dangerous, IMO, not to mention wasteful of emergency services.

Like I keep saying, I'm not in favor of these guys. I am against the arguments presented ITT. There is a difference.
 
Thermal said:
I don't. Why do you ask?

I pointed out why a radical trans group would find them objectionable.
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Since you're okay with using Nazis as clarifying analogies, let's assume that a group of Nazis had some demographic group they didn't like. Let's just pretend, for the sake of an example, that that's Jews.

Let's say a poster here, let's call her "Rolfe," posted an example of something objectionable a Nazi claiming to represent the Nazi cause had done. For instance, just for arguments sake, pulling a fire alarm at a synagogue during a routine service because (as they openly stated) they couldn't stand the thought of Jews getting away with talking among themselves about Jewish things. And then the police excusing that act because, well, you just have to understand that Nazis don't like Jews, didn't'cha know? So naturally they're going to "organize a protest" by singlehandedly pulling a fire alarm.

And let's say your response to that was dismissive and disdainful, something along the lines of "Whelp, I'm convinced. Dangerous sieg heiling Krauts, the lot of them. The police apparently are, too. And theater management. Krauts, the lot. Is there anyone left in the UK excepting Rolfe who is not a Kraut?"

And now you're explaining to us that, no you don't have any beef with Jews yourself, and you agree that pulling the fire alarm was a dick move and the perp should have been arrested (despite your initial dismissive response saying nothing of the sort), but you object that we seem to be failing to understand that Nazis find Jews doing Jewish things objectionable and that's very important to keep in mind here.

And by the way, why are we overlooking that those particular Jews publicly admitted in a sugar-coated public policy statement that while all are welcome at most of their events, only Jews can be rabbis?
 
Thermal said:
Yes, the statement was 'sugar coated', and they still came right out and said they are trans-exclusionary (in any practical sense). That would make a trans activist see them as a nazi, and feel justified in protesting anything this group did.
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They arent trans-exclusionary, they are male exclusionary. They welcome trans-identifying females and females who identify as non-binary.
 
@Thermal 's position seems to be that it's understandable that a man will get angry and even lash out at women who won't let him hang out with them. Not excusable, mind you! I'm not setting up a strawman, here. But understandable.

I'm sure if pressed Thermal would concede that Not All Men. Just a certain subset of men. Which is fine. It's that subset we're talking about anyway. The subset that regards male-exclusionary women as akin to Nazis, becomes emotionally distraught at the idea of them, and lashes out with acts of harassment and vandalism when he sees them gathering without him.

I don't see any of that response, from that subset of men, as understandable at all. By which I mean, it is not the response of a reasonable person. It's not reasonable to think of women as nazis, if they don't want males foisted on them in their female spaces and gatherings. It's not reasonable to become angry at such women and their exclusive gatherings. It's not reasonable to become so angry that you lash out at them with harassment and vandalism.

Ironically, it is exactly subset of unreasonable men that Thermal says women should accommodate, on account of how upset and out of control they get if their claim to womanhood is challenged in any way. One doesn't have to squint very hard to see some parallels with spousal abuse. "See what you made us do?" "Let us control you, and there won't be any more problems."
 
Agatha said:
They arent trans-exclusionary, they are male exclusionary. They welcome trans-identifying females and females who identify as non-binary.
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Only trans-identifying males matter, so only whether they are excluded counts.
 
Matthew Best said:
And? They are a women's group. Of course men are going to be excluded from some events. That makes them Nazis in your little world?
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I think Thermal is saying it makes them Nazis in their little world, and that we should be more understanding and tolerant of that viewpoint. We should find that viewpoint relatable.
 
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