Pretty good summary. I would add that the UK doesn’t have states, and rulings like that of the UK Supreme Court on gender are binding on the whole nation.
I often wish Australia didn’t have states.
Transwomen are not Women - Part 15
- Thread starter d4m10n
- Start date
I often wish Australia didn’t have states.
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Well, their claim is that they need to do this in order to fulfill their desires to be their authentic selves.... whatever the hell that means.
The reality is probably that they want the titillation of being in the same spaces as, and intimately close to, women who are uncomfortable about them being there.
In both cases, this refers to women's bathrooms & changing rooms, women's wards in hospitals, women's rape crisis and domestic abuse centres etc
In both cases, to facilitate their fantasies and titillations, they expect women to shut the ◊◊◊◊ up about their objections.
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Indeed
Of course when he repeats stuff over and over, he's convinced of the Holy Truth of his words, and we are the dummies who just don't get it.
But when one or more of us repeats stuff over and over, we are just a bunch of bigoted tranny-bashing liars repeating misiformation.
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Do you have anything resembling the US "Supremacy Clause" in your Constitution?
Here’s the thing. We have a Constitution, but hardly anyone knows or cares what’s in it because it has no material impact on how we live our lives. It’s just part of the machinery of government.
Feminist activity in the UK also grew out of the campaigns for the right of women to have abortions legally and on demand, for the making available of contraceptives to unmarried women, for allowing women the same rights to divorce. Most of these coalesced in what was probably for the UK the "golden age" of decriminalization of what most of us consider - today - to be self-evident rights, the 1960s.
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Rolfe
Adult human female
Women's rights weren't fully legislated for until the early 1990s, though. We had a good 25 years before the trans lobby came for us.
d4m10n
Penultimate Amazing
I'd be interested in hearing an answer to this as well.
I've seen plenty of large venues that actually have this exact setup, typically labeling the standalone room "Family Bathroom" or something along those lines. Even my local Target (big box store) does this.
d4m10n
Penultimate Amazing
I just finished reading Difficult Women: A History of Feminism in 11 Fights (link) about the rise of British feminism and my impression was that every one of those fights had to be fought on both sides of the pond. Some of them I can actually recall happening here in the U.S. at roughly the same time as they did in the U.K.
d4m10n
Penultimate Amazing
While I am in favor of allowing public accommodations (especially spas and pools) to be single-sex without being legally sanctioned, I'm not at all in favor of the red state policies. From what I can tell, activists on both sides are trying to impose a one-size-fits-all solution from the top down which will invariably be suboptimal in specific situations (e.g. jjimjilbangWP).
It appears that trans advocates don’t want to answer this frequently asked question.
Thermal
August Member
No no no... you say you can simply reject a challenge and not respond (in this case your refusal to provide evidence for your AGP claims). I am doing the same. How's it feel? Honest?
But no: I am not a sniveling, lying coward, and will address it directly for the hundreth time (apologies to Pixel for the repetition, but as you can see, it is demanded by those on your side).
Ok. First we have to make sense of your question. Who has posed a scenario where a medically transitioned transwoman must be accepted without question, and any and all intact transwomen must not enter?
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incivility snipped
A transwoman who has gone to the lengths of surgical transition, hormone therapy, etc should not be hard to spot. Someone who has done nothing should be similarly easy to make. You have said yourself how easy it is to visually identify them.
So let's try it a little more in depth, because maybe I'm not understanding your question. Why are you trying to 'tell' anything? Are the people bothering anyone or not? Whether they are intact or not makes no difference to harassing others; they don't have that right. The short version I have been repeatedly answering this question with is that it ain't ya business, you're not the Penis Police. You don't have to 'tell' anything about someone who is not bothering you or anyone else. Your question becomes nonsensical, because there is no reason to 'tell' anything.
"But what if it's a cross dressing perv or opportunistic rapist?" you ask. We have seen that it doesn't happen. Pervs and criminals are smarter than posters ITT, and know they have gained no advantage by calling attention to themselves, which being a guy in drag is going to do. They might also think about the women having SOs outside, who will beat the creep into next week when they leave the restroom. They gain no advantage by selfID policies; that's why we see no incidence of increased perving, anywhere.
So what does someone do when a highly questionable person that makes you uncomfortable is in the restroom? The same as we have done for generations- wait till the weirdo finishes their business and clears out. I've done so in men's rooms. It's part of living with other people who are way different. Just keep clear and don't interact.
But your question says "but man, I really want to interact and get confrontational with these people who I think are dangerous". That makes no sense to me. You gonna throw down against someone who you believe to be a physically stronger criminal? Or are you assuming everyone is just going to listen to you and do what you say?
Just so we can resolve this question to your satisfaction: why do you want to 'tell' anything? What are you going to do with this information? You just got done saying that even with your SC ruling in your favor, you believe society is going to ignore it, so you self-exclude from using a rest room at a theater because there are apparently violent transwomen who lurk in the women's rooms that management supports, or something like that.
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Thermal
August Member
Walk a mile in those shoes. How would you like it if society as a whole said "hey d4m10n, you're not a man or a woman in our eyes, and we don't give a ◊◊◊◊ what you think you are. Use the 'others' room, ya freak"?
Mashuna
Ovis ex Machina
Or if society as a whole said, "Hey, use the room that aligns with your birth sex. If you're not comfortable with that, there's a private cubicle that anyone can use."
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2003
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Why don't you ask Rachel Dolezal?
UK abortion act was 6 years before Roe vs Wade.
Thermal
August Member
Saying 'use the room that aligns with your birth sex' is saying 'we reject you, freak'. That's the heart of the discussion here. Some of us think that is unneccesarily intolerant as a starting point.
Mashuna
Ovis ex Machina
No, it really isn't saying 'we reject you, freak'. That it's perceived that way is certainly a big part of the discussion here.
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2003
- Messages
- 61,656
No, it isn't. It's saying, you're still male, you have to use the room for males. That may be a rejection of their preferences, but it isn't a rejection of them. You are not automatically entitled to your preferences.
Second, "birth sex"? I defended you over "sex change" because that's long standing terminology. But "birth sex" is not. It's just sex. At least in mammals, there is no such thing as birth sex separate from sex. The term is used to dishonestly imply that there is, and your use of the term is unjustified, especially since there is an established and superior alternative: sex.
Your starting point of considering a refusal to accede to preferences as hatred is itself intolerant.
You think you can keep Bryson out at the same time you let authentic transwomen in. You cannot. Hell, you cannot actually distinguish Bryson from authentic transwomen.
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Thermal
August Member
Walk a mile. What if you were told by the government and society "hey Pixel- you have to use the men's room. We don't give a ◊◊◊◊ how you feel about that". That's what it feels like to a transwoman.