Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

[Ziggurat]

I don't need a PhD to assert:

You didn't need a PhD to assert that sex isn't binary either. You were wrong, but you asserted it anyways.

If we don't need to check pelvic bones, DNA or geneltalia to correctly identify people's gender, then we also don't need to check those things to validate a person's gender dysphoria.

I have been repeatedly informed by your side that gender dysphoria is not a necessary component of transgender identity.

So yeah, the reading I've done indicates blocking puberty can be reversed.

None of your reading has been of the primary research literature. The people who do that literature might have Ph.D.'s, but you don't need one to read it.

If you think there is a needle in your haystack that says otherwise, then go find it yourself. It's not my job to make your argument for you.

Read the Cass report section on puberty blockers. It's a very easy read, doesn't get too technical. But it makes clear that there's really no evidence at all for the claim that they are reversible. Which shouldn't be a surprise, as there are no studies which even examined the question of reversibility. Which should make you wonder why anyone would make the claim that they're reversible.

 

[varwoche]

woman

1. an adult female human being: 2. an adult who lives and identifies as female…

dictionary.cambridge.org

"an adult who lives and identifies as female though they may have been said to have a different sex at birth"

Do you endorse this definition? Whoever endorses it, I'd like to know why they don't recognize Rachel Whatshername's ID as an African-American.

There was a man on nearby Whidbey Island who identified as a cat. He even had faux whiskers surgically implanted. Such is the self ID path to madness.

 

[d4m10n]

Right, but the ruling was so kid-in-school specific that I'm not sure that broadness will scale.

Right, but my point was that so long as plaintiffs and activists take a maximalist approach ("Trans girls are girls; they belong in the girls' __________") the courts will have to either accept the total package (lol whoops) or else draw their own lines as they will.

As a matter of practicality, I think we all know sex segregation will have to prevail, if for no other reason than co-ed showers ain't flying in any school district full of minors in this country.

Ever watch the BSG reboot? Co-ed showers are awesome and not remotely creepy.

"Gender identity" is NOT a scientific concept, it never has been, and it never will be. It's a social construct.

I might choose at this point to trust you over Kenneth Zucker^WP but don't count on it.

 

[Elaedith]

Right, but my point was that so long as plaintiffs and activists take a maximalist approach ("Trans girls are girls; they belong in the girls' __________") the courts will have to either accept the total package (lol whoops) or else draw their own lines as they will.

Ever watch the BSG reboot? Co-ed showers are awesome and not remotely creepy.

I might choose at this point to trust you over Kenneth Zucker^WP but don't count on it.

Looks like the activists have been doing their stuff on the entry on Zucker again.

 

[d4m10n]

Do you endorse this definition? Whoever endorses it, I'd like to know why they don't recognize Rachel Whatshername's ID as an African-American.

I feel pretty bad for Ms. Dolezal; everyone raised by 70s hippies was told “You can be whatever you want to be when you grow up.”

 

[Thermal]

This is not an actual quote from me. Here's an actual quote from me:

Lying about [selfID] is literally impossible.

versus

"It's literally impossible to lie about your self ID!"

Do you see the difference? Probably not.

Yeah, probably not. Thanks for the correction.

You seem to think this undermines my argument, but it doesn't. Because I'm not the one trying to redefine words, the trans activists are.

Thermal is not "the trans activists". You and others seem to have a hard time understanding who you are exchanging with and what their arguments are.

This is kind of a ◊◊◊◊ definition. What does it mean to "live as a female"? Does it mean anything deeper than "pretends to be a female"? How much pretending does one need to do to qualify? How good at pretending do they need to be? For how long, how often?

You are trying to apply mathematical precision to a loose social construct. That doesn't make sense at any level. "Live as a female" is close enough for an English speaker. I have no need to break our an electron microscope to rigorously define where the precise point is where someone qualifies as "living as a female".

 

[Mashuna]

"an adult who lives and identifies as female though they may have been said to have a different sex at birth"

Eta: using Cambridge dictionary to pacify the Brits

This is kind of a ◊◊◊◊ definition. What does it mean to "live as a female"? Does it mean anything deeper than "pretends to be a female"? How much pretending does one need to do to qualify? How good at pretending do they need to be? For how long, how often?

And when the definition of 'live as a female' becomes too complex (or internally incoherent), it resolves to 'identifies as' again, via self-ID.

 

[Thermal]

It doesn't matter how many times you "scream this one" - so long as "this one" continues to be dead wrong, no-one is going to listen

You think it is "dead wrong" to clearly define and limit what is meant by gender? That's... something. Can you explain why that would be 'dead wrong'? You prefer the sloppy ambiguity and conflating with sex that has this whole goddamned thread running into eternity?

 

[Thermal]

Do you endorse this definition?

It's sloppy, but makes the point close enough. One-liners aren't the greatest for conveying the nuance of the language in any tongue.

Whoever endorses it, I'd like to know why they don't recognize Rachel Whatshername's ID as an African-American.

Transracialism hasn't been observed for generations, with those afflicted in the millions, as transgenderism has, and no data exists to determine if its even a thing beyond a few screwballs, who kinda look like they are willfully chain-pulling.

There was a man on nearby Whidbey Island who identified as a cat. He even had faux whiskers surgically implanted. Such is the self ID path to madness.

Right, and you have the occasional nut who surgically modifies himself to be a lizard. When their numbers get into the millions, I'll start paying closer attention. As long as we can count them all on one hand worldwide, I'm comfy dismissing them as aberrations

 

[Ziggurat]

versus

Oh look, when you edit my actual quote to insert words which were not there, it looks like your completely invented quote. Amazing.

You are trying to apply mathematical precision to a loose social construct. That doesn't make sense at any level. "Live as a female" is close enough for an English speaker. I have no need to break our an electron microscope to rigorously define where the precise point is where someone qualifies as "living as a female".

If you want to claim that someone is lying about something, you need a definition of what that thing is that is sufficient to establish that it's a lie. The definition that you provided is not sufficient to do that without further clarification.

 

[Elaedith]

You thin iit is "dead wrong" to clearly define and limit what is meant by gender? That's... something. Can you explain why that would be 'dead wrong'? You prefer the sloppy ambiguity and conflating with sex that has this whole goddamned thread running into eternity?

Transactivists do conflate sex and gender; or more precisely, your sex is self identified and what we mean by gender is perception of our sex. That's why Mycroft insists that transwomen are actually, literally female.
Seeing gender identity and sex as separate like sexual orientation and sex are separate is so out of date already, and implies sex actually exists when everybody knows it was just invented.

 

[d4m10n]

As long as we can count them all on one hand worldwide, I'm comfy dismissing them as aberrations

There is no doubt that folks who profoundly wish to be seen as another race are statistically aberrant and much less common than those who profoundly wish to be seen as another sex, but that doesn't provide us with any reason to believe that they are less worthy of consideration as human beings struggling with a disconnect between who they are and who they want to be.

In other social justice discussions, the smaller size of the minority group is seen as a reason for extra solicitude rather than dismissal.

 

[Thermal]

Right, but my point was that so long as plaintiffs and activists take a maximalist approach ("Trans girls are girls; they belong in the girls' __________") the courts will have to either accept the total package (lol whoops) or else draw their own lines as they will.

Agreed, which is why I keep drawing that big fat line between the public restroom and high school showers. I think they are fundamentally not equivalent concerns, but within the four corners of discrimination law, they do be. Which is why we need the gender/sex lines clarified, so that we can treat them as different issues.

Ever watch the BSG reboot? Co-ed showers are awesome and not remotely creepy.

Unfortunately, no. Was that the one where the actors all decided to do an... authentic... shoot?

 

[Thermal]

There is no doubt that folks who profoundly wish to be seen as another race are statistically aberrant and much less common than those who profoundly wish to be seen as another sex, but that doesn't provide us with any reason to believe that they are less worthy of consideration as human beings struggling with a disconnect between who they are and who they want to be.

In other social justice discussions, the smaller size of the minority group is seen as a reason for extra solicitude rather than dismissal.

I'm not convinced that the transracial peeps are doing anything other than all-in cosplaying. And before you say it, yes, I'm sure a substantial amount of trans people are, too. When we have something stronger than Racheal D rubbing skin and hair darkener on herself and asking friends not to blow her cover, I promise to pay closer attention.

 

[Rolfe]

I see that Jonathan "wax my balls" Yaniv who became Jessica, who perved on little girls in the female toilets of a ferry and tried to organise trans-only, no parents, topless swimming evenings for children, has reinvented himself again as "Jessica Simpson", an indigenous Métis (first nations Canadian) woman and academic. This bio page is a laugh a minute.

Jessica Simpson - Biography - IMDb

Jessica Simpson. Self: Blaire White. Jessica Simpson is an Indigenous Métis academic, activist, and public intellectual based in British Columbia, Canada. With a profound commitment to justice, equity, and digital safety, she is recognized for her groundbreaking research in cybercriminology...

www.imdb.com

He is also claiming to have been born a Christian and never to have been Jewish. Despite having claimed antisemitism against him during the wax-my-balls trials, and a hospital report online that confirms he has been genotyped as being of Ashkenazi Jewish descent.

There is a twitter thread about it all.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1832524515064373371

His profile picture is pretty aspirational, I have to say.



Plus this one.



All sorts of other fun details coming out in a current thread, which he joined in himself using his original @trustednerd account, pretending to be someone who knew about his proclivities and was critical of him.

Twenty years ago someone exhibiting such severe delusional mental illness would have been dealt with as a mental case, restrained from his worst excesses, and hopefully helped. But now, all these lunatics have to do is play the "I'm a woman" card and they get away with anything.

 

[Thermal]

Transactivists do conflate sex and gender;

Which is why I can't figure out why smartcooky finds making that distinction to be 'dead wrong'. It's possible he was just babbling, but I'll let him clarify.

or more precisely, your sex is self identified and what we mean by gender is perception of our sex. That's why Mycroft insists that transwomen are actually, literally female.

And I adamantly do not.

Seeing gender identity and sex as separate like sexual orientation and sex are separate is so out of date already, and implies sex actually exists when everybody knows it was just invented.

Again, that's why I want those lines carved in stone. But I'm getting alot of pushback on that. Seems to me a lot of the ambiguities and interpretive problems vanish if that blurry line is cleared up.

Eta: I get that legally, it's actually hard to do. Formal legal definitions can make things insanely easy to get even more squirelly with, and your wiggle room is largely lost because there is a four-cornered definition.

 

[varwoche]

Transracialism hasn't been observed for generations, with those afflicted in the millions, as transgenderism has, and no data exists to determine if its even a thing beyond a few screwballs, who kinda look like they are willfully chain-pulling.

Despite which, transracialism is now advocated among academics. Seeing as race is a fuzzy concept, quite unlike sex, it's not as scientifically absurd as is trans sexuality. (Although I think it's asinine.)
Gender and Race in an Age of Unsettled Identities

 

[Rolfe]

Just dropped a message to the theatre where I have had a season ticket since approximately forever.



We'll see how they handle this. I have absolutely had it with these entitled, invading men. Maybe the theatre would have taken action even before, but we all know how woke theatre luvvies and Glasgow council are, so I rather doubt it.

 

[Thermal]

Oh look, when you edit my actual quote to insert words which were not there, it looks like your completely invented quote. Amazing.

Oh please. I changed the word 'that' to 'self ID' which you spelled out in the previous sentence for simple brevity.

If you want to claim that someone is lying about something, you need a definition of what that thing is that is sufficient to establish that it's a lie. The definition that you provided is not sufficient to do that without further clarification.

And you provided no definition at all, simply claiming it was literally impossible.

 

[d4m10n]

When we have something stronger than Racheal D rubbing skin and hair darkener on herself and asking friends not to blow her cover, I promise to pay closer attention.

If we were to modify the dictionary definition you posted earlier to reference race instead of sex, it would read as follows:

"an adult who lives and identifies as black though they may have been said to have a different race at birth"​

Dolezal started doing this in 2011 and kept going until she was credited with revitalizing her local NCAAP chapter in 2015.

Her commitment to transition was at least as strong as many of the transwomen we've discussed here, and that despite a near total lack of social affirmation, not to mention the various media outlets who have wantonly deadraced her.