Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

[d4m10n]

The whole point of this mess is that transpeople don't want to be relegated to 'others' anymore, and have gender discrimination law and precedent to back them up.

You seem to skip over the possibility that transpeople might well be in the first two categories, along with the fact that the fifth category (people who call themselves non-binary) is expressly designed to be other than men/women, so it would be odd to complain about being othered in that specific sense.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I suppose people should just accept that the majority hates them and they have no place in society. Any such objections is a temper tantrum. I get it.

For someone who rails on about kindness and compassion, you sure are silent about a group of males spouting hate and advocating for violence against females who don't do what they demand...

 

[Emily's Cat]

Still doesn't justify the discrimination committed by JK Rowling

Support your assertion. Exactly what discrimination has Rowling committed?

 

[Rolfe]

The issue is the Ladies Room Warriors wanting it to be criminalized should one of them tranny weirdos dare to set foot in the room they identify with.

We simply want them to leave, when asked to leave. And for this to happen often enough that they'll stop trying it on. Nobody is being criminalised, unless they escalate matters to a criminal offence of, say, breach of the peace.

Right. Some females are very adamant about telling transwomen to ◊◊◊◊ right off. That's why we are all here.

Some men are very adamant about telling women they can suck it up. Whom should we favour?

 

[Rolfe]

Or even scold other males to stop harassing males who dress in more interesting ways?

I would if I saw it happening. It doesn't seem to be a regular thing.

 

[Emily's Cat]

If a person dressed as a woman goes into a male facility, you don't think they're in danger in any way?

If a male goes into a female facility, do you think the females might be in danger in any way?

 

[Thermal]

Nope. I've seen this explained to you multiple times as well, you really have no excuse for the continued misrepresentation. It's not that they want the mere act of setting foot to be criminal. It's that they want the right to be able to expel them. That's a very different thing, as much as you might pretend it's not.

It's worthless without force of law. What are they going to do? No enforcement, no teeth, and we are right back where we are now.

 

[theprestige]

Transwomen who've had surgery know they've had surgery,

Cutting off male genitalia doesn't make a male female.

and don't have the equipment to need male facilities,

Urinals aren't actually a necessity, for penis equipped men. We can use the local crappers just fine.

and many of them fear using male spaces because they dress as women.

"Dress as a woman" is functionally meaningless. You mean they dress in regressive stereotypical womanffaces

And none of this is a reason to turn safe spaces for females into yet more spaces for males. Especially if you're going to stick with fiat self-ID.

 

[Emily's Cat]

First, I don't think there are any sex segregated spaces. I think we have allowed them to all become gender segregated, largely by not paying attention. as the gender crew slipped in. That negates a lot of your question-begging right out of the gate.

FYI, prisons were sex segregated, and pretty clearly so. And as soon as special exceptions were made to let some males be housed with females, females started complaining. When laws started being passed to house inmates according to their gender identity, those have been non-stop challenged and opposed.

We didn't "allow" them to change, that change was forced upon us, without our consent, and over our objections.

 

[Rolfe]

So far, all we seem to have achieved is...

TRAs (you know who you are): Some men want very much to use the women's facilities, and they'll be really upset if you don't let them. Have some thought for their feelings!
Women: We'll be really upset if men come into our single-sex facilities. What about our feelings?
TRAs: Sorry, what?

 

[Thermal]

You seem to skip over the possibility that transpeople might well be in the first two categories, along with the fact that the fifth category (people who call themselves non-binary) is expressly designed to be other than men/women, so it would be odd to complain about being othered in that specific sense.

Right, which works even better with my unisex proposal. But if we can't come to agreement on the larger percentage, I don't know how we are expected to fare better with the fraction of the fraction of a percent that is even murder and doesn't seem to be complaining much anyway.

 

[Thermal]

FYI, prisons were sex segregated, and pretty clearly so. And as soon as special exceptions were made to let some males be housed with females, females started complaining. When laws started being passed to house inmates according to their gender identity, those have been non-stop challenged and opposed.

We didn't "allow" them to change, that change was forced upon us, without our consent, and over our objections.

Yes, and that's not the day to day common experience that we are discussing. Most of us are not in prison or professional athletes. Edge cases can be edge cases, not the rule for where we pee everyday.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Transwomen who've had surgery know they've had surgery,

But nobody else knows... and this in no way protects females from transgender identified males who have NOT had surgery.

and don't have the equipment to need male facilities,

Male facilities have stalls - males still need to poop, don't they?

and many of them fear using male spaces because they dress as women.

If some males fear males so much that you feel it necessary to give them a male-free facility... why don't you allow that most females merit a male-free facility for the same reason?

 

[d4m10n]

Exactly what discrimination has Rowling committed?

The steps to the Gryffindor girls' dormitories magically reject male entrants based on sex-at birth.

 

[Thermal]

So far, all we seem to have achieved is...

TRAs (you know who you are): Some men want very much to use the women's facilities, and they'll be really upset if you don't let them. Have some thought for their feelings!
Women: We'll be really upset if men come into our single-sex facilities. What about our feelings?
TRAs: Sorry, what?

Correct. If the women's reasoning is based on bigotry and/or discrimination, the reasoning can be ignored.

 

[d4m10n]

If the women's reasoning is based on bigotry and/or discrimination, the reasoning can be ignored.

Is it based on "bigotry and discrimination" when they ask to keep cisgender males out?

 

[Thermal]

We simply want them to leave, when asked to leave.

How? Telekinesis? If you don't have force of law, you have nothing.

And for this to happen often enough that they'll stop trying it on. Nobody is being criminalised, unless they escalate matters to a criminal offence of, say, breach of the peace.

Great. Rely on the Jedi Mind Trick.

Some men are very adamant about telling women they can suck it up. Whom should we favour?

Reason and law.

 

[Thermal]

Is it based on "bigotry and discrimination" when they ask to keep cisgender males out?

Hey, maybe we could start a multi year multi part thread to discuss exactly that?

 

[Thermal]

The steps to the Gryffindor girls' dormitories magically reject male entrants based on sex-at birth.

Freaking Polyjuice abusers.

 

[Rolfe]

Correct. If the women's reasoning is based on bigotry and/or discrimination, the reasoning can be ignored.

Who died and made you judge of our souls?