Cont: The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 32

[Vixen]

Look, the willfully stupid and ignorant Darkness is back.


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Don't do yourself down.

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[Vixen]

I was testing if readers here were paying attention when I wrote this line.

Nope, actually, it was a typo. I meant the end of the last line to read "This was a violation of Article 6.1 with Article 6.3c." There was also a violation of Article 6.1 with 6.3e in the case, and that was centered on the inadequate or unfair interpretation.

One point readers may get from Knox v. Italy is that denial of a lawyer during an interrogation does not in itself necessarily lead to an ECHR judgment of an unfair trial. A court could correct for that procedural violation by excluding the evidence obtained by the interrogation. In this case, that would mean no trial of Knox on a calunnia charge.

I love how the PIP call an ordinary police interview with a witness an 'interrogation'. What happened to the all-night Rome tag teams of twelve? Was there a gestapo-type light shining in her face?


Enquiring minds need to know.




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[AmyStrange]

Don't do yourself down.

Well, if you want to be considered willfully stupid and ignorant, fine, but I wasn't talking to you.


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[AmyStrange]

Interrogation
(also called questioning) is interviewing as commonly employed by law enforcement officers, military personnel, intelligence agencies, organized crime syndicates, and terrorist organizations with the goal of eliciting useful information, particularly information related to suspected crime. Interrogation may involve a diverse array of techniques, ranging from developing a congenial rapport with the subject to torture.

Interrogation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

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[Stacyhs]

Knife boy or nice boy? He was a knife boy. Collected knives. Strutted into the Questura with a knife on his person then whined about the police confiscating it.

You've repeatedly called him 'knife-boy". You know that, we know that.
He had a knife collection: so what? NONE of his collection had anything to do with the murder.
Strutted? Whined?

Waved a butchers cleaver around on FaceBook.

Yeah, a freshman college student wrapped from head to toe in toilet paper by his friends, holding up a cleaver and a spray bottle of pink alcohol is just soooooooooo threatening.

Claimed to have pricked MK's hand whilst cooking.

Which didn't happen since her DNA wasn't on the knife. So what?

C&V were bent.

Thanks for proving my point. According to you Hellmann-Zanetti were bent, Marasca-Bruno were bent, Prof. Hampikian is bent/incompetent, Prof. Vinic is bent, Buongiorno, Dalla Vedova, etc were bent, Prof. Gill is bent...

They were discovered with a whole load of cadavers lining their corridors

Oh Vixen, Vixen, Vixen...you know that old TJMK-KrissyG canard that C & V's lab had bodies in the corridor was disproved years ago so why do you still repeat it? In 2015, the Univ. of La Sapienza closed its morgue which was in a completely different building than C&V's lab. They had nothing to do with the morgue.

and no proper thermostat on their 'scientifically controlled' lab refrigerators.

Sigh. That is a blatant distortion. The kind we see from TJMK's Krissy G who wrote "Crini points out, in the Nencini report, that Vecchiotti’s own laboratory fridge did not have a thermometer!" Only Nencini never said that at all. This is what was written in the Nencini MR, pg. 46 English:

In order to check how the sample had been conserved, we first asked Prof. Vecchiotti if it was common practice to
keep a record of the preceding temperatures of the freezer. Prof. Vecchiotti essentially said to us that they
were not available, as they did not have such a system of recordkeeping of the temperature. What we then
did, using a certified system and a certified thermometer, was to check that the conservation temperature
at that moment was -20°, which is in keeping with the requisite temperatures for the conservation of this
type of sample.

What they didn't have was a system for recording temperature history, not that they didn't have a thermometer at all. But you'll just handwave this away, too, as if you've never seen it.

Vecchiotti convicted of covering up for another killer by concealing his DNA from the courts. I dare say Vecchiotti sees herself as some kind of 'innocence' campaigner. I see a misguided crook.

Oh, dear...they were not convicted of "covering up" for anyone. Apparently, you're unaware that Vecchiotti and her co-defendants were AQUITTED on appeal. Not that this fact will stop you from repeating the story.

https://www.dagospia.com/cronache/g...i-assolti-in-appello-i-periti-accusati-254409
THE EXPERTS ACCUSED OF NEGLIGENCE AND DELAYS IN THE INVESTIGATION INTO THE MURDER OF COUNTESS ALBERICA FILO DELLA TORRE ACQUITTED ON APPEAL

The three experts defended themselves in court by claiming that they had carried out - with regard to the sheet - "a random examination, since the evidence showed traces of blood visible to the naked eye", and that the victim's watch was not available, and therefore the investigations "had not taken place due to the lack of authorization from the prosecutor and the seizure of the same".

On this basis, the Court decided to acquit the experts and justified its decision by arguing that "proof of the subjective requirement of gross negligence" had not been provided and that, as the Supreme Court reiterated, "the liability of the technical consultant" identifies the injured party in the State, the holder of the interest pursued by the law.

They were never convicted of 'covering up' for anyone.

Altieri and Popovic were simply sticking up for a couple of people they perceived to be in trouble. And let's face it, the suitcase on the coach never happened, did it? Nor did the mobile phones Altieri saw, nor did he 'see a medic doing a slashing throat gesture' which is how he knew how MK died in order to impart the message onto Knox in the car as they were driving to the Questura.

LOL! Altieri didn't know Knox or Sollecito at all. Popovic didn't know Amanda at all and Sollecito was only a casual acquaintance. And you are seriously claiming they perjured themselves in order to "stick up for them"? Insane.

The claim that Knox knew Mez had her throat slashed 'because Altieri told her in the car' is hilariously ludicrous.

Sure, Vixen. Altieri perjured himself for two people he had never met before Nov. 2! Wow! What a saint!

Knox claimed she knew the body was by the wardrobe because that is what Filomena said is also laughable.

False. She said she heard Filomena call out "A foot" and "cupboard/wardrobe" which she then assumed meant Kercher was IN, not 'by', the cupboard. Please try and stick to facts.

A cop who looked in on the scene said the fact the body had been placed on a sheet and moved eighteen inches towards the closet informed him that whoever did it, intended to dispose of the body later.

Kercher was NOT lying on a sheet. She was lying on the bare floor with a pillow under her hips and a comforter on top of her. Where do you get this nonsense?

Yet in the Questura Knox was telling people the body was found in the closet. Amazing insider knowledge there, eh, for someone who wasn't there.

Ahem....how is it 'insider' knowledge when Kercher wasn't found IN the wardrobe but on the floor between the bed and wardrobe?

Smell the coffee.


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Stop repeating proven lies.

 

[Stacyhs]

And of all the people in Perugia, police decided to 'interrogate' (mmmm-kay) Knox because...?



Any idea why they would pick on some rando...?





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Don't be disingenuous. Mignini admitted he began to suspect Knox on day one. Don't give us this "rando" crap.

 

[Stacyhs]

I would say the 'Darkness' are people who think murderers are cool. The biggest Knox supporter of all was the Orange Buffoon who donated her funds and urged Americans to 'boycott Italy'. What a moron, eh?!!! Supporting a murder suspect just because she was American.

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No one here thinks murderers are cool so stop with the rubbish. False equivalency fallacy there, Vixen. Yes, Trump's an idiot but not for supporting Knox.

I would say the "Darkness" are people who continue to spread lies and misinformation about two people exonerated by the SC of Italy.

 

[Stacyhs]

I followed the case, read the court documents, looked at the evidence and reality is what it is.

Then why do you post so many disproven lies as you've done today?

People seem to have romantic and sentimental ideas that females especially are unable to commit heinous crimes, but they can and they do. All the evidence points to the pair being at the scene. Difference between you and me is that I am capable of looking reality in the eye.

 

[Stacyhs]

It was actually a promise I made a poster earlier, re whether Mignini now thought Knox innocent. Your comment at #2864 was a good opportunity to provide the further details from Mignini's book in respect of Mignini's impression as a prosecutor questioning Sollecito as to his character being 'icy cold'.

A long-winded work around the fact that you were, in fact, talking to me.

You did demand to know why Sollecito was referred to as such, claiming it was somehow a fictitious device.

I made no such demand or claim. This is what I said in post #2857:

What? No "cold as ice" or other negative descriptions in front of his name? You're slipping.

And this is my other post on the subject #2863:

Which you repeat ad nauseum. You've referred to him as "knife-boy" on many occasions. Are you just parroting Mignini there, too?

 

[AnimalFriendly]

Please do not put words in my mouth.

And if you do, keep a bar of Ivory handy.

Most of you probably know this, but OJ didn't profit from "I Did It"...the proceeds, which weren't very much, went to the Goldmans. BTW, Kim did a really great podcast interview with Knox a few years ago...definitely worth a listen.

Regarding Mignini's book, and Guede's for that matter, I think it's interesting that neither, AFAIK, has been translated into English.

 

[Vixen]

<snip>


Yeah, a freshman college student wrapped from head to toe in toilet paper by his friends, holding up a cleaver and a spray bottle of pink alcohol is just soooooooooo threatening.

Which didn't happen since her DNA wasn't on the knife. So what?


<snip>

Claim you. Do you have a citation for this (other than yourself or a Sollecito supporter)? There is zero evidence anyone dressed Sollecito up like a mad scientist other than off his own bat. He also mentioned on FB he wanted 'extreme experiences'. He boasted about all the drugs he was taking. Daddy wanted to send him to rehab.


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[Vixen]

<snip

Oh, dear...they were not convicted of "covering up" for anyone. Apparently, you're unaware that Vecchiotti and her co-defendants were AQUITTED on appeal. Not that this fact will stop you from repeating the story.


They were never convicted of 'covering up' for anyone.



<snip>

Vecchiotti was fined €100,000 for gross negligence.


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[Vixen]

Don't be disingenuous. Mignini admitted he began to suspect Knox on day one. Don't give us this "rando" crap.

Detectives often know when someone is a perp. There is nothing to stop anyone from thinking whatever they like. If Mignini thought Knox was a suspect from Day 1 - says you the mind-reader - then what are you going to do about it? What protocol has been broken?

Given she never bothered calling the police and got dressed in her room in the dark (because HER lamp was under Mez' bed!) and supposedly took a shower, with Sollecito's great bloody footprint on the bathmat, her second within hours, as per her email to everyone in her address book in the early hours of the following Sunday, he carefully scrubbed her from top to bottom. As well as being up all night mopping up water and getting up VERY early after a bank holiday evening to purchase cleaning fluids, and with both having switched off their phones for the entire duration: why WOULDN'T anyone with an ounce of commons sense find Knox' behaviour suspicious?



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[Vixen]

And if you do, keep a bar of Ivory handy.

Most of you probably know this, but OJ didn't profit from "I Did It"...the proceeds, which weren't very much, went to the Goldmans. BTW, Kim did a really great podcast interview with Knox a few years ago...definitely worth a listen.

Regarding Mignini's book, and Guede's for that matter, I think it's interesting that neither, AFAIK, has been translated into English.

Mignini's book only came out a few months ago. I dare say he is in the process of having it translated to English.



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[Vixen]

She followed it from 2011, not 2007.

I followed it from Nov 2 2007 as soon as it was reported.



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[Jack by the hedge]

Detectives often know when someone is a perp.

Even when they're wrong. Some of them manage to change their minds when it becomes clear they were wrong. Some never can.

 

[Vixen]

Even when they're wrong. Some of them manage to change their minds when it becomes clear they were wrong. Some never can.

Well we can never know what people are secretly thinking so it is best to go by objective facts. As the onus is on the police and the prosecutor to build up a case and show probable cause in order to charge anyone (in the UK this would be 'Reasonable Prospect of Success' [in gaining a conviction]). Given the pair were not charged for another eight months, it matters not a jot who suspected whom on Day One. It should be readily apparent that the first thought would be a stranger (male, given the sexual assault) who could strike again at any time in a town full of university students from all over the world. It would be totally irresponsible to focus on some random person just because you took a dislike to them, as the PIP are claiming Mignini did.


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[Welshman]

Detectives often know when someone is a perp. There is nothing to stop anyone from thinking whatever they like. If Mignini thought Knox was a suspect from Day 1 - says you the mind-reader - then what are you going to do about it? What protocol has been broken?

Given she never bothered calling the police and got dressed in her room in the dark (because HER lamp was under Mez' bed!) and supposedly took a shower, with Sollecito's great bloody footprint on the bathmat, her second within hours, as per her email to everyone in her address book in the early hours of the following Sunday, he carefully scrubbed her from top to bottom. As well as being up all night mopping up water and getting up VERY early after a bank holiday evening to purchase cleaning fluids, and with both having switched off their phones for the entire duration: why WOULDN'T anyone with an ounce of commons sense find Knox' behaviour suspicious?



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If the case against Amanda and Raffaele was such a slam dunk, why do guilters need to resort to arguments which reek of desperation such as trying to make switching mobile phones off sound incriminating.

 

[Vixen]

If the case against Amanda and Raffaele was such a slam dunk, why do guilters need to resort to arguments which reek of desperation such as trying to make switching mobile phones off sound incriminating.

How about the fact Knox tore out all the pages in her diary for the week leading up to the murder?

 

[AnimalFriendly]

Well we can never know what people are secretly thinking so it is best to go by objective facts.

Then don't pretend to know what Knox is thinking. Many, many of your postings have presented "Know thought this"..."Know thought that"....as though you can wave a black magic wand and turn your opinions into empirical facts.