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Split Thread Diversity Equity and Inclusion and merit in employment etc

Hercules56 said:
Going to HBCs and majority black neighborhoods and doing outreach for job positions. You oppose this?
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Not as long as they accept any qualifying white person who walks in.
Hercules56 said:
How about offering scholarships, free SAT prep., free remedial courses, just to people in zip codes with high concentrations of black people?
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So you're in favor of targeting poverty, not race.
 
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How can bias be reduced?
It seems to me that in the U.S. DEI policies have gone over board ended up discriminating against the majority citizens. In my view, bias is what is keeping women and minorities from getting the share of the jobs that would have got if they were white males. If a white male applies for a position, and a woman, or a non-white applies with exactly the same qualifications they should have equal chances, but bias ends up favouring the white male, even if only slightly.
How can this inequality be addressed?
 
steenkh said:
How can bias be reduced?
It seems to me that in the U.S. DEI policies have gone over board ended up discriminating against the majority citizens. In my view, bias is what is keeping women and minorities from getting the share of the jobs that would have got if they were white males. If a white male applies for a position, and a woman, or a non-white applies with exactly the same qualifications they should have equal chances, but bias ends up favouring the white male, even if only slightly.
How can this inequality be addressed?
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As far as right wingers are concerned, it should not. Top jobs are the preserve of white, Christian, heterosexual, men
 
steenkh said:
If a white male applies for a position, and a woman, or a non-white applies with exactly the same qualifications they should have equal chances
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Sure. You know how you help make that happen? By pushing a constant and consistent message that race and sex should not be factors. But DEI insists that they must be factors. Which just entrenches them as factors.
steenkh said:
but bias ends up favouring the white male, even if only slightly.
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That's frequently not true.
steenkh said:
How can this inequality be addressed?
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In terms of sex, there will always be inequalities in participation rates by profession, because on average men and women want different things. We don't have to solve that.

In terms of race, as already discussed, we address poverty. We should also address the increasing numbers of single-mother homes (which disproportionately affect blacks but are also a problem among poor whites) since that's a major factor in a whole host of social problems.

What you don't do, though, is engage in racial discrimination and indoctrinating victim mindsets. That doesn't actually help people.
 
Ziggurat said:
What you don't do, though, is engage in racial discrimination and indoctrinating victim mindsets. That doesn't actually help people.
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What you also don't do, is hire, promote, and contract based on race, not merit, when you find that poverty and poor education have prevented some potential candidates from qualifying for the role.
 
arthwollipot said:
Is it diversity, equity or inclusion that is a problem for you?

Don't hide behind the TLA. Say it out loud: Diversity is neither legal nor good policy. Equity is neither legal nor good policy. Inclusion is neither legal nor good policy. Don't be a coward.

The biggest lie here is that diversity, equity and inclusion are the same as reverse discrimination against white heterosexual cisgender men. The lie is racist, homophobic and transphobic all rolled into one convenient Three Letter Acronym.

And you all have the absolute gall to claim you're the ones who favour meritocracy? You should be ashamed.
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This is an absurd and downright malicious mischaracterization.
 
arthwollipot said:
Except that it is. You might think you are banning racial discrimination but what you're actually banning is racial diversity. It's right there in the frickin name. And you might be all "oh, but it doesn't mean what it says it means" but it does. The opposite of inclusion is exclusion, and that's exactly how the DEI bans are being weaponised.
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I really wish you would stop making things up in your imagination and then assuming that your mental inventions are real.

No, nobody is banning diversity. What is being banned is TRAINING PROGRAMS AND MANDATORY STRUGGLE SESSIONS that start from the premise that anti-anything-other-than-white racism is implicit in every single aspect of everyone's lives all the time, and that the only possible way to combat that inescapable whiteness-as-racism-by-definition is to continually tell everyone how racist white people are and how impossible it is to escape that racism.

FFS, have you ever bothered to actually READ anything by Ibram X. Kendi or Robin DiAngelo? Go read what they actually write, what has actually shaped these policies.

Because it is 100% untrue that diversity is being banned, diversity is and continues to be something that most people value. What's being banned is 1) time-wasting, divisive, and abrasive training sessions and 2) committees whose sole and only purpose is to find racism in everything everywhere and 3) policies that explicitly and clearly seek to privilege some races over others.
 
bruto said:
Please excuse bad typing and spotty responses as I am killing time in an airport using phone. But I did not mention compensation, and my response was explicitly to the simplistic remark that implies the evils of racism will just go away if we just stop doing it.
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Except that the evils of racism *do* just go away if we stop doing it. They may not evaporate overnight, but they absolutely do go away.

Seriously, do you feel that the Netherlands is a horribly racist country that needs special intervention in order to address the racism that they just stopped doing? Do they need special policies to tell all of the white Dutch how horrible their ancestors were, and how they're responsible now for the evils perpetrated upon the world compliments of the VOC?
 
arthwollipot said:
Come on. You don't really believe that racism is solved in America do you?
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I think racism in the US was just as solved as it was in Australia, UK, Denmark, and Spain up until about a decade and a half ago, when some people decided they had an easy grift by convincing companies that they desperately needed special training classes in order to overcome the innate racism that white people have and cannot ever escape from, seeing that whiteness is inherited and all whiteness is racist.
 
Hlafordlaes said:
Besides, word was back in the early 1970s that Black players could never be good quarterbacks in the NFL; not smart enough. Last Superbowl buried White QB privilege 6 feet under, then stomped on it. Oops.
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This seems to contradict your argument tough. NFL (or MLB for that matter) didn't institute any policies in order to focus on black (or any other race) and make sure they were represented. They didn't implement any "DEI" policies, or any "antiracist" approaches. All they did was literally stop discriminating and look at skill alone. That's all.
 
Hercules56 said:
What is wrong with helping out historically marginalized and persecuted groups? Its called Justice.
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No, it's called discrimination.

Removing barriers is justice. Ensuring that educational opportunities are equally available to all is justice. Favoring a group of people because their ancestors were mistreated is not justice.
 
Hercules56 said:
Most blacks in the USA are not descended from black slave owners. MANY of them are descended from white ones. And almost ALL black people in the USA are descended from folks who suffered from terrible racism and discrimination and persecution that made upward social and economic mobility literally impossible, right up until the 1980s. Cant say that about most white folks.
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You can though. Most white people in the world are descended from people who were subjected to slavery, indentured servitude, serfdom, and persecution. Most people in the world - regardless of their skin color - are descended from people who were abused and oppressed. The economics of the Arabic world were based on slave trade of white people for thousands of years.

And just so we're all on the same page... you know there's a thriving slavery industry right now still operating, right? Any interest in combating slavery that's currently in place instead of harassing people who haven't engaged in any discrimination or slavery because some of their ancestors *might* have done something racist *maybe*?
 
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