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Split Thread Diversity Equity and Inclusion and merit in employment etc

Matthew Best said:
I'm still struggling to tell the difference.
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In the US if your company is generous enough to allow you time off, and even more generous in that they'll pay you for it, you still sometimes have to justify why you're taking the day off. If your employer accepts the reason they may graciously allow you that day. If not, then they won't. A floating holiday vs a PTO day means you're admitting it's just for fun, and they won't have to demand a doctor's note or a court document to prove you're taking off for a good reason.

If this sounds idiotic and childish it's because it is: Americans, even at good employers, are treated like wayward children who have to be monitored.

And of course a floating holiday request can be denied.
 
It sounds idiotic and childish. If I want a day off, I ask for it, and if I have any accrued holidays left (I get 26 days a year if memory serves) then I am almost always given it off, unless I absolutely can't be covered by other staff or freelancers (which hardly ever happens). I don't really understand the idea of getting a day's leave that doesn't count against my vacation time - why? Why not just increase my vacation time by one day? It doesn't make any sense.

And how on earth does it promote diversity, equity or inclusion?
 
Matthew Best said:
It sounds idiotic and childish. If I want a day off, I ask for it, and if I have any accrued holidays left (I get 26 days a year if memory serves) then I am almost always given it off, unless I absolutely can't be covered by other staff or freelancers (which hardly ever happens). I don't really understand the idea of getting a day's leave that doesn't count against my vacation time - why? Why not just increase my vacation time by one day? It doesn't make any sense.
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That's fine. It does no harm, and works out nicely for those of us that have the perk.

ETA: I'm also fortunate enough to take small amounts of time off without having to worry about permission or vacation days. But not everyone is so privileged. Think of floating holidays as two free vacation days every year, on top of the ones you accrue over time.
Matthew Best said:
And how on earth does it promote diversity, equity or inclusion?
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It doesn't. Arth's "friend" just grabbed a bunch of "nice to have" ideas and attributed them to DEI programs. I assume he's running the same naive semantics play that Arth has been.

Half the stuff on the list actually stems from the Americans with Disabilities Act, not DEI programs. A lot of the rest are established by the Equal Opportunity in Employment Act, also not DEI programs.

And DEI programs are more than just tolerance and acceptance training in the workplace. It also encompasses minority privilege in consideration for contracts, and promotes non-merit-based advancement. Two things that are not part of the ADA or the EOAA. Indeed, it may be said that DEI programs exist because some people think the EEOA doesn't go far enough. Arth's "friend" is either stupid or lying or both. Which, Facebook, so that tracks.
 
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No, that's not the problem. I get more than my legally-mandated paid time off already. What I don't understand is why it has to be called something different. If you want me to have 30 days' holiday, give me 30 days' holiday; if you want me to have 32 days, give me that.
 
Matthew Best said:
I guess I'm not used to the idea that paid holiday time is a "perk". Where I live it's an entitlement. "Almost all people classed as workers are legally entitled to 5.6 weeks’ paid holiday a year". https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights
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It's perhaps worth making a note that the US is one of the very worst countries in the world when it comes to paid time off and the like.

Allowing a floating holiday or couple to allow people to take days off that are significant for them, but not so significant for others, helps fill the gap slightly. It's both a good thing and likely also a tool for the absurdly rich to decrease pressure for more fundamental change.
 
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Matthew Best said:
No, that's not the problem. I get more than my legally-mandated paid time off already. What I don't understand is why it has to be called something different. If you want me to have 30 days' holiday, give me 30 days' holiday; if you want me to have 32 days, give me that.
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Matthew Best said:
It sounds idiotic and childish. If I want a day off, I ask for it, and if I have any accrued holidays left (I get 26 days a year if memory serves) then
I am almost always given it off, unless I absolutely can't be covered by other staff or freelancers (which hardly ever happens). I don't really understand the idea of getting a day's leave that doesn't count against my vacation time - why? Why not just increase my vacation time by one day? It doesn't make any sense.

And how on earth does it promote diversity, equity or inclusion?
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Highlighted for the issue. Many American supervisors view being an ass as a core function of the job. And seem to want to deny annual leave if it is even the least bit inconvenient for them. Approval of annual leave can be based on workload, and some companies are over-strict about that.

There seem to be two flavors of floating holidays:

1: A few days of annual leave that the employer can't override. The great majority of AL is subject to work load based approval, but the employee gets a few red cards per year. Not many, but a few.

2: The other flavor is that the regular paid holidays can be worked, but then take time off some other time. Like if a family doesn't celebrate Christmas, the parents can work over Christmas if they want and then use that holiday some other time that their family does celebrate. Nice for some non-Christians.
 
If you're lucky to have paid holidays at all in the US, it's likely to be only 2 weeks (not adjusted for seniority), which accumulate only at the END of your first year at the company. A floating holiday can be taken earlier than that.

Most Americans have no idea what an outlier they are compared to the rest of the western world, and take some convincing that paid time off is better for both employees AND employers.
 
Matthew Best said:
No, that's not the problem. I get more than my legally-mandated paid time off already. What I don't understand is why it has to be called something different. If you want me to have 30 days' holiday, give me 30 days' holiday; if you want me to have 32 days, give me that.
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For same reason most companies shifted from calling ETO (earned time off) to PTO (paid time off): to make it very clear that it's a gift from the employer, a gracious largesse from them which can be denied or revoked at their whim. It's certain not a "right" and you're not "entitled" to it. The workers must be made to understand that the employer has all the power, always. If the worker doesn't like that they can quit. (You don't get unemployment if you quit a job, and of course if you even had health insurance at all it's through your employer and stops when you aren't working there any more.)
 
theprestige said:
And DEI programs are more than just tolerance and acceptance training in the workplace. It also encompasses minority privilege in consideration for contracts, and promotes non-merit-based advancement.
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That's SDEI. DEIA does not do that.

And if the US were shutting down SDEI in favour of DEIA, I'd be all for that. Instead, they're shutting down everything that smells of diversity, equity or inclusion.
 
The floating paid holiday is inclusive because it allows people who recognise holidays other than Christmas and Easter to take those days off instead.

In my country, we have Christmas and Easter holidays whether we are Christian or not. And if someone celebrates holidays other than those, they have to use their personal annual leave for it, and they are still required to take the Christmas and Easter holidays because those are national and necessarily apply to everyone.

ETA: yes, we have mandatory loading for those who work on public holidays. I think it's double time for the Christian celebrations.
 
This is your anti-DEI. Do you approve of this?

bsky.app

Charles Ornstein (@charlesornstein.bsky.social)

Unquestionably, major policy changes, edicts and directives handed down by the new Trump administration will upend lives. But I've also been struck by the widespread efforts to erase/whitewash history. Stick with me for a pretty shocking series of events from just the past few weeks.
bsky.app bsky.app
 
arthwollipot said:
This is your anti-DEI. Do you approve of this?

bsky.app

Charles Ornstein (@charlesornstein.bsky.social)

Unquestionably, major policy changes, edicts and directives handed down by the new Trump administration will upend lives. But I've also been struck by the widespread efforts to erase/whitewash history. Stick with me for a pretty shocking series of events from just the past few weeks.
bsky.app bsky.app
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Only a chump approves of threads on woke Twitter.
 
arthwollipot said:
This is your anti-DEI. Do you approve of this?

bsky.app

Charles Ornstein (@charlesornstein.bsky.social)

Unquestionably, major policy changes, edicts and directives handed down by the new Trump administration will upend lives. But I've also been struck by the widespread efforts to erase/whitewash history. Stick with me for a pretty shocking series of events from just the past few weeks.
bsky.app bsky.app
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They took down the pictures of the former secretaries of state from a hallway somewhere!
 
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