Cont: Scorpion's Spiritualism, Part Deux

The medium came directly to me with a personal message, and opened it by saying she had my grandmother, who had been through to me many times before.
I already said I got the message in a church I had never been to before from a medium I had never seen before.
I cannot remember the rest of the message as it was a long time ago, but I clearly recall the medium telling me my grandmother had been through to me many times.
You know, if a medium came to me with a personal message from my granmother (either, they're both dead) that could only apply to me, I'll remember it to my grave.

That's how I know you're making the story up.
 
You know, if a medium came to me with a personal message from my granmother (either, they're both dead) that could only apply to me, I'll remember it to my grave.

That's how I know you're making the story up.
I am not making up anything. The messages I got from my grandmother were mostly just comfort and advice. So they were not particularly memorable, and they were a long time ago in the 1970s.
 
Accounts of personal experiences, such as the psychographies attributed to mediums like Chico Xavier, can serve as evidence for those who believe in mediumship. Although these accounts may not be enough to convince radical skeptics, they are valid within the context of human experience.
So you're going with the "no evidence is necessary to prove my assertion, no amount of evidence is sufficient to disprove it" line then.

Tell me, why are you trolling the forum?
 
The messages I got from my grandmother were mostly just comfort and advice.

Then what made you so sure that they were from your grandmother? Mediums are perfectly capable of giving comfort and advice.

It sounds like you were impressed by a single message specific enough that you couldn't see how the medium could have obtained the information (though other people certainly can) and thereafter simply accepted any old non-specific message as being from your grandmother.

Did it really never occur to you to ask her for more specific information? Information that could actually have been useful, not just to you but to others? Information about missing people, for example, or the identity of murderers.

You really do seem to have been astonishingly easy to fool, Scorpion.
 
I am not making up anything. The messages I got from my grandmother were mostly just comfort and advice. So they were not particularly memorable, and they were a long time ago in the 1970s.
Nobody thinks that the messages you got were wrong. They were just comfort and advice given by the fraud medium, and you took it as real because you wanted to think it was real. This is what mediums do, and many do it very well.
 
And therefore not particularly hard to fake. You don't have to suffer from schizophrenia to be taken in by that. You just have to be gullible.
I'm guessing the reason the messages from his grandmother were "not particularly memorable" is because they were not, even to him, things only his grandmother could have told him.
 
I'm guessing the reason the messages from his grandmother were "not particularly memorable" is because they were not, even to him, things only his grandmother could have told him.

It's trivially easy to come up with a question or 2 which only one of one's grandmothers (or another suitably close relative) would be able to answer.
 
It's trivially easy to come up with a question or 2 which only one of one's grandmothers (or another suitably close relative) would be able to answer.
That's assuming Scorpion had any interest in actually testing them (or his faith); it seems pretty clear he does not. And even so...hasn't he said something to the effect that testing the spirits offends them somehow, so they wouldn't respond, or give false answers? I may be mixing him up with some other wooster, but it seems like a common cop-out for them.
 
I am not making up anything. The messages I got from my grandmother were mostly just comfort and advice. So they were not particularly memorable, and they were a long time ago in the 1970s.
The reason mediums give people generally nonspecific messages of comfort and advice is that it's easy to make them apply to anybody, and easy to make them stick. It's an easy, low-effort gotcha that requires neither prior knowledge nor a great deal of imagination.
 
The reason mediums give people generally nonspecific messages of comfort and advice is that it's easy to make them apply to anybody, and easy to make them stick. It's an easy, low-effort gotcha that requires neither prior knowledge nor a great deal of imagination.

The saddest thing is that the victims of this fraud, no matter how often they hear this, will never listen to it.
 
I see you are still quoting my signature where I said I am the thinker not my brain. I have fought that war against chemical chaos in my brain and won it. Chemicals do not have the last word in my brain I do. As far as I am concerned that is because thought is caused by the immortal spirit that is only using the brain.

If something is affecting your brain, your physical, synapse and neuron brain, then it should be possible to test for that. Have you had any kind of brain scan, to prove that this "immortal spirit" is interacting with your brain? There must be some kind of observable effect.
 
If something is affecting your brain, your physical, synapse and neuron brain, then it should be possible to test for that. Have you had any kind of brain scan, to prove that this "immortal spirit" is interacting with your brain? There must be some kind of observable effect.
I would also hazard the guess that if something happens to his brain, his thinking is affected. In fact, we know that brain damage can completely alter the personality of a person, which should not happen if his spirit was doing the thinking.
 
I would also hazard the guess that if something happens to his brain, his thinking is affected. In fact, we know that brain damage can completely alter the personality of a person, which should not happen if his spirit was doing the thinking.
I don't think the claim was about brain damage, although what you say is inarguably true. A normal brain doing brain things produces data we can see via electroencephalography, electrocorticography, and nuclear magnetic resonance imaging. Something "using the brain" in any way that affects how the brain operates or how the brain registers sensation or mood is susceptible to investigation by means of that data. We can register such simple effects as closing your eyes with such crude tools as EEG. And we can feed tiny amounts of electricity back through EEG contacts, or apply precise magnetic fields, and obtain a subjective change in sensation that correlates to measurable electrochemical factors.

The notion that you can evade scientific scrutability by imagining that a spirit just "uses the brain" in an effectually different way than what we can measure is just really, really bad special pleading.
 
I don't think the claim was about brain damage, although what you say is inarguably true. A normal brain doing brain things produces data we can see via electroencephalography, electrocorticography, and nuclear magnetic resonance imaging. Something "using the brain" in any way that affects how the brain operates or how the brain registers sensation or mood is susceptible to investigation by means of that data. We can register such simple effects as closing your eyes with such crude tools as EEG. And we can feed tiny amounts of electricity back through EEG contacts, or apply precise magnetic fields, and obtain a subjective change in sensation that correlates to measurable electrochemical factors.

The notion that you can evade scientific scrutability by imagining that a spirit just "uses the brain" in an effectually different way than what we can measure is just really, really bad special pleading.

I think you may have misread steenkh's post, I took it as them pointing out that damage to the brain has been shown to cause personality changes and that this fact is compatible with personality being an emergent property of the physical organ but not with the brain being controlled by an independent entity.
 
I would also hazard the guess that if something happens to his brain, his thinking is affected. In fact, we know that brain damage can completely alter the personality of a person, which should not happen if his spirit was doing the thinking.
As can mental illness, such as schizophrenia.
 
As can mental illness, such as schizophrenia.
What do you know about schizophrenia? I fought my way off heavy medication against psychiatrists advice during the 1970s.
I learned how to channel self healing through my chakras and how to cleanse my aura of negative psychic energy.
I tried to tell various psychiatrists this, but they all wrote in my psychiatric notes that they thought I would never read, that I was delusional.
They know nothing, and neither do you.
 
No Scorpion, they almost certainly know a lot about it, since that's their job.

Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they know nothing, and given you are a sufferer of schizophrenia, which has as one of it's key characteristics that sufferers will believe their delusions are absolutely real I suspect Arth is a lot more clear minded on the subject than you.

ETA Fixed spelling.
 
Last edited:

Back
Top Bottom