Ed The Fascism Checklist, Trump 2025

bruto said:
I suppose this could go anywhere, but Trump has gone beyond his usual deranged rhetoric of calling for the arrest and imprisonment of his political rivals, and called explicitly for for the complete overthrow of civil society, using as his excuse that the Supreme court has granted him "absolute immunity."

“We should throw Jack Smith out with them, the mentally deranged people. Jack Smith should be considered mentally deranged, and he should be thrown out of the country,”

Exile? The government declaring its opponents mentally unfit and thus unprotected by law? It may be apocryphal that Trump had the speeches of Hitler on his bedside table, but whatever he did have it was sure as hell not The Gulag Archipelago!
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I can think of one other mentally deranged person who could do with being thrown out of the USA right about now, Donny... ;)
 
mikegriffith1 said:
Similarly, federal employees have been prohibited from talking politics on the job for many years now. I'm guessing you've never worked in a corporate office or for the federal government. I've done both.
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The US govt. has no blanket policy prohibiting federal employees from discussing politics at work. Employees are only prohibited from actively campaigning while at work (though some managers do prohibit political discussions, at least in non-private settings).
 
MG is probably thinking about the Hatch Act:

Hatch Act Overview​

The Hatch Act, a federal law passed in 1939, limits certain political activities of federal employees, as well as some state, D.C., and local government employees who work in connection with federally funded programs. The law’s purposes are to ensure that federal programs are administered in a nonpartisan fashion, to protect federal employees from political coercion in the workplace, and to ensure that federal employees are advanced based on merit and not based on political affiliation.
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Hatch Act Overview

osc.gov osc.gov
 
www.nytimes.com

The Ezra Klein Show

Real conversations. Ideas that matter. So many book recommendations.
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Latest episode of Ezra Kleins interviews a women who wrote a book, Origins of Elected Strongmen.
Far better way to look at trump than just calling fascist.

ETA: Very short version, its all about transactional politics, personal ego, and loyalty to the leader rather than any sort of ideological program of note.
 
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it goes a bit beyond that: the core principle of Authoritarianism is that you give up your authority to someone above you in exchange for gaining unquestioned authority over those below you: at least your family, but also people who are deemed to outsiders. You become the governor for the potentate, holding power not in your but his name - this neatly sidesteps any issues of competency or merit.
 
IMO, the only reason Trump is an authoritarian is in service to his ego. His profound insecurity is such he can't brook folks disagreeing with him. In a real sense, calling him a fascist gives him too much credit. It implies he has some...thought....ideology? IDK, just more than is actually there.

ETA, on a possibly more practical note, it also is a worn out cliche to call right wing pols fascists. Doesn't have any impact any more, just like the right calling any left wing pol a socialist, commie, Marxist or what not. Nobody listens or cares.
 
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ahhell said:
IMO, the only reason Trump is an authoritarian is in service to his ego. His profound insecurity is such he can't brook folks disagreeing with him. In a real sense, calling him a fascist gives him too much credit. It implies he has some...thought....ideology? IDK, just more than is actually there.
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That's part of his fascist persona. His basest instincts, his crocodilian brain really, revolve pretty much around his own personal interests, mostly where his next meal is coming from. That corresponds quite a bit with the fascist mentality and ideology.
ahhell said:
ETA, on a possibly more practical note, it also is a worn out cliche to call right wing pols fascists. Doesn't have any impact any more, just like the right calling any left wing pol a socialist, commie, Marxist or what not. Nobody listens or cares.
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Not so much "calls" them as "describes" them.
 
ahhell said:
If you want an objective list, look for one that existed before Trump.
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Agreed. From the relevant wiki:

Roger Griffin describes fascism as "a genus of political ideology whose mythic core in its various permutations is a palingenetic form of populist ultranationalism." Without palingenetic ultranationalism, there is no "genuine fascism" according to Griffin. Griffin further describes fascism as having three core components: "(i) the rebirth myth, (ii) populist ultra-nationalism, and (iii) the myth of decadence."​

Other items from the pre-Trump checklist include violent direct action to achieve political ends, corporatist economics, aggressive expansionist foreign policy, and a cult of personality around a charismatic leader.
 
d4m10n said:
Agreed. From the relevant wiki:

Roger Griffin describes fascism as "a genus of political ideology whose mythic core in its various permutations is a palingenetic form of populist ultranationalism." Without palingenetic ultranationalism, there is no "genuine fascism" according to Griffin. Griffin further describes fascism as having three core components: "(i) the rebirth myth, (ii) populist ultra-nationalism, and (iii) the myth of decadence."​

Other items from the pre-Trump checklist include violent direct action to achieve political ends, corporatist economics, aggressive expansionist foreign policy, and a cult of personality around a charismatic leader.
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In which case MAGA is certainly ticking the boxes....

(i) Make America Great Again
(ii) America First
(iii) Anti-woke

and the rest could almost have been written with MAGA in mind though I wouldn't have accused Trump of "aggressive expansionist foreign policy" until his very recent comments regarding the Panama Canal, Canada and Greenland ....
 
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d4m10n said:
Agreed. From the relevant wiki:

Roger Griffin describes fascism as "a genus of political ideology whose mythic core in its various permutations is a palingenetic form of populist ultranationalism." Without palingenetic ultranationalism, there is no "genuine fascism" according to Griffin. Griffin further describes fascism as having three core components: "(i) the rebirth myth, (ii) populist ultra-nationalism, and (iii) the myth of decadence."​

Other items from the pre-Trump checklist include violent direct action to achieve political ends, corporatist economics, aggressive expansionist foreign policy, and a cult of personality around a charismatic leader.
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Would this fit Spanish fascism under Franco?
ETA: Changed France to Franco
 
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steenkh said:
Yes, I did, but Apple thought that France made more sense.
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LOL.

I'd say Franco pretty much checks all the boxes, especially the core ideas of national failure followed by rebirth through ultranationalism under the great unifying leader.
 
The Don said:
In which case MAGA is certainly ticking the boxes....

(i) Make America Great Again
(ii) America First
(iii) Anti-woke

and the rest could almost have been written with MAGA in mind though I wouldn't have accused Trump of "aggressive expansionist foreign policy" until his very recent comments regarding the Panama Canal, Canada and Greenland ....
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Also, "Only I can fix it".
 
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