Merged Australian Politics / Australian election

To be clear, water vapour is a greenhouse gas, just not a very potent one. It is, however, extremely abundant in the atmosphere and acts as a feedback mechanism rather than a direct driver of climate change. More water vapour, more effect from the other more potent greenhouse gases.

That's how I understand it works anyway. Not an expert don't @ me.
 
That wasn’t the claim. It was that the water vapour emitted by nuclear power stations contribute to global warming. Not true.
No, that wasn't the claim at all. Just that nuclear plants are not fully self contained.

The amount of steam out of a nuclear plant is way less than out of a coal fired plant. Apart from steam to drive turbines, water is also used to continuously move pulverised coal into the furnaces, and comes off as steam there too. It is usually recaptured and recycled, but not 100%.
 
To be clear, water vapour is a greenhouse gas, just not a very potent one.
Only to the effect that they are part of the greenhouse effect which allows life to exist on earth at all. When one refers to greenhouse gasses in this age, it concerns the gasses that are accelerating warming. And water does not cause warming.

And, despite comments to the contrary, H2O is as close to a constant as exists on earth. Nuclear power plants neither create nor destroy water.
 
To be clear, water vapour is a greenhouse gas, just not a very potent one. It is, however, extremely abundant in the atmosphere and acts as a feedback mechanism rather than a direct driver of climate change. More water vapour, more effect from the other more potent greenhouse gases.

That's how I understand it works anyway. Not an expert don't @ me.
Water vapour is a potent greenhouse gas. Modelling clouds correctly is one of the problems the model creators have to work with.
Water vapor is Earth's most abundant greenhouse gas. It's responsible for about half of Earth's greenhouse effect — the process that occurs when gases in Earth's atmosphere trap the Sun's heat. Greenhouse gases keep our planet livable.

We don't make much of it directly. CO2 is a problem because once we put it up there it's not going to go bury itself back in the ground in a solid state for a long time.
 
Only to the effect that they are part of the greenhouse effect which allows life to exist on earth at all. When one refers to greenhouse gasses in this age, it concerns the gasses that are accelerating warming. And water does not cause warming.

And, despite comments to the contrary, H2O is as close to a constant as exists on earth. Nuclear power plants neither create nor destroy water.
Not sure where you get the impression anyone said otherwise. :unsure: They convert some of the available liquid terrestrial water to steam, water vapour, in the atmosphere. This isn't controversial.
 
Well, they can ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊-well start up here in the Blue Mountains, one of Australia's premier tourist destinations! We've still got 1950's telephone copper wire pairs to our houses and buildings, coming from nice new fibre NBN boxes just outside in the street. So it's still 1990's dial-up speeds for us.

Get a move-on, Albo!
 
We've just had fibre to the property upgrade. The old FTTN was having intermittent problems.
Almost invariably, it was not the fibre that was the problem. It was "the last mile" from the node to your house that was at fault. Because it was made from metal-based technology that was susceptible to all the weather and water problems that have plagued telephony since its invention.
 
Almost invariably, it was not the fibre that was the problem. It was "the last mile" from the node to your house that was at fault. Because it was made from metal-based technology that was susceptible to all the weather and water problems that have plagued telephony since its invention.
LOL- and many of those 'last mile' connections dated from those times...
 
Fibre to the property needs to be done. Either that or a decent 5G network everywhere and get rid of the NBN. I suggest the latter may be a good idea. It will give the speeds we need so why invest in anything else? Only give FTTP to businesses that need it.
 
Fibre to the property needs to be done. Either that or a decent 5G network everywhere and get rid of the NBN. I suggest the latter may be a good idea. It will give the speeds we need so why invest in anything else? Only give FTTP to businesses that need it.
5G???
PMSL- our rural town just had over HALF the rural residents lost all internet access- because they turned off the 3G tower- and 4G (despite claims to the contrary from Hel$ra) does NOT have the same coverage... (the maps show my place has 'strong' signal- in reality, its literally a 5 minute drive to a point where I can now get a signal...)

Oh- we already got '5G rural'- which doesn't even make it to the 'welcome' sign on the outskirts of town before it stops working...

(We do all have UHF cb's here lol- even with 80 channels you can't find an empty channel during the day...)

I got Starlink now- and a cheap Aldi plan on Vodaphone (lol- the nearest place it works on a vodaphone network is several hours drive away)- BUT it does allow 'wifi calling'- coupled to the Starlink at least gives me a functional phone at home...

Hel$ra and NBM- totally ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ useless....
 
5G???
PMSL- our rural town just had over HALF the rural residents lost all internet access- because they turned off the 3G tower- and 4G (despite claims to the contrary from Hel$ra) does NOT have the same coverage... (the maps show my place has 'strong' signal- in reality, its literally a 5 minute drive to a point where I can now get a signal...)

Oh- we already got '5G rural'- which doesn't even make it to the 'welcome' sign on the outskirts of town before it stops working...

(We do all have UHF cb's here lol- even with 80 channels you can't find an empty channel during the day...)

I got Starlink now- and a cheap Aldi plan on Vodaphone (lol- the nearest place it works on a vodaphone network is several hours drive away)- BUT it does allow 'wifi calling'- coupled to the Starlink at least gives me a functional phone at home...

Hel$ra and NBM- totally ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ useless....
That is why I said a decent 5G network, not what you described.
 
That is why I said a decent 5G network, not what you described.
I can remember the Opposition telling the public when the NBN was announced that it was already obsolete because 5G would replace it. 5G hasn't and it can't. If you want to experience why, go into Melbourne any night and see how responsive 5G is.
 
IMHO, 5G is great for when people don't have an option. Unfortunately, NBN providers have been offering 5G to people who would be better off with land based NBN because it's easier to install. Just send out the modem, job done.
 
Fibre to the property needs to be done. Either that or a decent 5G network everywhere and get rid of the NBN. I suggest the latter may be a good idea. It will give the speeds we need so why invest in anything else? Only give FTTP to businesses that need it.
Nope.

Mobile coverage is a major problem in a lot of the Blue Mountains. For a start, if you go over the edge of the escarpment, mobile coverage cuts out - total black spots all along. And that was with 3G/4G. 5G barely makes it to us from the local towers, and cuts out if you walk behind a decent sized tree. All that means locals too far from a tower or in a small valley all have zero mobile coverage. Non-locals who go bushwalking unwisely and fall off rocks or break their legs while abseiling, etc. (and they do, with monotonous regularity) can't call for help. We have been begging for clifftop repeaters for years...nothing from either political party.

Just use the existing copper wires? Sure...no. Run over poles and underground through iron-rich sandstone, they get flooded and are prone to deterioration over time. Bad quality copper voice lines were not good for ADSL 20 years ago, let alone streaming now. We also get lightning storms, which take out our ancient exchanges and induce spikes through the aerial cables and wet, ferrous ground that blow up connected modems, routers, etc. Everyone here has about half a dozen old modems that have been zapped this way. With long copper cables to the furthest houses, signal quality is noticeably poorer for them. Also, some dwellings are kilometers from the nearest phone pole in mobile black spots (truly off-grid), and it is prohibitively expensive for them to have one crappy copper line run to their house (Telstra will do it, but it runs to tens of thousands of dollars).

So the solution for here is fibre-optic. It is cheaper than copper, very high performance, is immune to water and lightning spikes, and can be run dozens of kilometers with no signal loss. It can be literally buried in a dirt trench if needs be. All it takes is THE POLITICIANS GETTING OFF THEIR ARSE AND MAKING NBN INSTALL IT! Which they have promised for a decade now. It was going along OK, until it all came to a grinding halt when Malcolm Turnbull decided that it would be cheaper to integrate with the existing copper lines than take fibre to the premises. That was a decade ago... So we wait.
 
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