Of course the very rich ones will be "giddy". They have enough money to protect themselves and know that the roadblocks to them making more money are being removed. This will do very little for the anerage American.
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Ed The Fascism Checklist, Trump 2025
- Thread starter thaiboxerken
- Start date
Trausti
Illuminator
Ah, zero-sum thinking. Will we ever be spared of it?
Cosmic Yak
Philosopher
2028? I admire your optimism, though I fear it is misplaced. It would not surprise me at all if it turns out America has had its last election for a very long time.This. 'Illegal immigrant' has joined the other words that have lost all meaning over the years thanks to far-right groupthink. You know, like 'communists', 'woke', and 'leftist'. Even people entering the country to seek asylum, which is, as we all know, they have every right to and isn't against US law, are 'illegal immigrants' in the fascist MAGA world.
The person you're responding to trying to placate us with 'oh but the Konzentrationslager are only temporary, you know, they'll go away once we've gotten rid of all the Untermench' was chilling, too. They're moving more and more away from the dog whistles and saying the quiet parts out loud. 2024-
2028will be a horror show.
Edit: The way they pretend there were no peaceful protests that were attacked by police forces in 2020 is disturbing, too. They're already rewriting recent history and declaring their support for violent crackdowns on peaceful protests.
I predicted before the election that if Dump won, we'd soon have discussions in Europe about how many American refugees we could afford to take in.
Blue Mountain
Resident Skeptical Hobbit
It would for me. The individual states run the elections, and they're mandated by the constitution. I doubt even Trump's sympathetic Supreme Court would let him cancel elections that have been held every two and four years for over two centuries.
There have been cases where despots have unilaterally suspended the constitution. However, most of those were in places where democratic institutions were weak. Currently in the USA they're not as strong as I would like them to be, as shown by the very factional Congress and a Supreme Court whose justices are chosen by the president based on their right/left leanings as opposed to their judicial prudence, but they should be strong enough to prevent an outright takeover by hard right Republicans.
Having said that, who gets to stay in power ultimately depends on the military. Officers and soldiers swear an oath to the Constitution, but when push comes to shove we may be in the unpleasant situation of finding out just where the loyalties of the top generals lie.
Cosmic Yak
Philosopher
And if the hard-red, Republican & Christian fundamentalist-dominated states decide not to hold elections, because Trump is mandated by God, who is going to stop them?
You also need to factor in Project 2025. This is an explicit blueprint for taking over the judiciary and the military. Once they control the courts and the various law enforcement agencies, they will be essentially unopposed- i.e. no-one will have the power to force them to hold elections.
By which time it will be too late.
Add on to that the large numbers of the American people who will be easily swayed into accepting that elections will be fixed by the Satanists, so it's better not to have any for the time being.
Then add the fact that the Democrats will be far too weak to actually mount any kind of offense against this coup.
I hope you're wrong- but I fear the worst.
Gulliver Foyle
Penultimate Amazing
Hate to break it to you but the US isn't one of those places, as what it has are republican institutions. And as history has shown us republican institutions are generally broken by the first despot with a mob at his back.
The trickling-down delusion has dominated economics since the 1980s.
As has been demonstrated conspicuously this month, the reality of trickle down is the world's richest man pissing on ordinary people.
Ah, trickle down thinking. Will we ever be spared of it?
Ladewig
I lost an avatar bet.
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2001
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- 28,828
There are all sorts of ways to cancel elections.
The Constitutionn says state legislatures cast the electoral votes. If some Republican legislature (with a Republican governor and secretary of state, and state-level Republican SC)decided “the vote totals from those Democrat districts look hinky so we’ll not count them until things get sorted out - meanwhile we cast all our EC votes for DJT,” then who exactly will stop that? Especially if the Republicans cause enough chaos or confusion in those districts.
If a state has a law that says voters can take as much time as they want looking at the ballot, then what’s to stop a D-leaning precinct from being targeted by a few hundred Republicans who each want to stand in the voting booth for an hour?
They learned a lot from 2020. They plan on not making the same mistakes when challenging crap.
Or if DJT says the week before the election, there are so many stories of upcoming voter fraud we have to postpone the election.
The Constitutionn says state legislatures cast the electoral votes. If some Republican legislature (with a Republican governor and secretary of state, and state-level Republican SC)decided “the vote totals from those Democrat districts look hinky so we’ll not count them until things get sorted out - meanwhile we cast all our EC votes for DJT,” then who exactly will stop that? Especially if the Republicans cause enough chaos or confusion in those districts.
If a state has a law that says voters can take as much time as they want looking at the ballot, then what’s to stop a D-leaning precinct from being targeted by a few hundred Republicans who each want to stand in the voting booth for an hour?
They learned a lot from 2020. They plan on not making the same mistakes when challenging crap.
Or if DJT says the week before the election, there are so many stories of upcoming voter fraud we have to postpone the election.
arthwollipot
Limerick Purist Pronouns: He/Him
No. A lot of situations are zero-sum.
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
The only trickle-down happening is the rich pissing on the poor per usual.
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
Fixed that for you. Pretty much every authoritarian dictatorship runs elections.
Blue Mountain
Resident Skeptical Hobbit
Please define, show, or demonstrate the difference between a "democratic" institution and a "republican" institution. The institutions I have in mind are parliament/congress, the courts, the military, and the media.
Blue Mountain
Resident Skeptical Hobbit
There are presidential elections and congressional elections. The courts are supposed to be able to force the government to do things mandated by the constitution, but if courts in individual states have been stacked with people who aren't prepared to defend the constitution, then that's a serious situation indeed.
I had forgotten about that. Trump says he's not aware of Project 2025, but I see little reason to take his word for it. And the people he's putting into place in government are in many cases the same people who wrote various chapters of the project.
That will work in only a small number of states or even places within states. Congress itself may find something within its rules to prevent an illegitimate person (one whose seat was not formally won in a biennial election) from sitting or being recognized when votes within the chambers are counted.
True, unless they can get their act in gear and start pushing back hard against the anti-democratic changes.
Unfortunately this is what a smidge over 50% of the US population voted for when they elected Trump as president. It will be both interesting and scary to watch all this play out over the next four years.
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Musk’s wishes to have more workers that work longer hours for less is pissing on the poor, and represents a zero-sum thinking.
That he happens to provide an accurate description of the MAGA population is really ironic.
Norman Alexander
Penultimate Amazing
Musk wants the same type of workers he used to have slaving away at the bottom of his daddy's emerald mines in South Africa under apartheid.
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
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I wonder if causing an economic depression is a good part of facism. Trump is already telegraphing that it will happen and is already trying to blame Biden and democrats for it
Covering his bases.
If his tariffs don't actually crash the economy then it's all down to his brilliance. If they do, then it's the Democrats' fault.
Looking at the level of competence in his administration then IMO the latter is the more likely scenario.
Norman Alexander
Penultimate Amazing
Getting his excuses in ahead of time.
Gulliver Foyle
Penultimate Amazing
The difference is that in a democracy everybody is equal,in a republic some people are more equal than others. Every institution in the US was designed to ensure that the will of the rich triumphed over the will of the people.