Does 'rape culture' accurately describe (many) societies?

The strange thing is that I never get hit with these ads, I have to go and explicitly hunt for explicit porn to find it, I never just "come across" (oh er missus) porn.
I've mostly just seen 'anime tiddies out' banners on abandoned sites that clearly never had them when they were active. And to be fair the first one I can think of that a youngster might find is paheal's site for Rule 34. So they WOULD be looking for porn but probably not expecting 75 ads with jiggly penetration on every page.

ISTR a similar situation with piracy sites but I haven't used them in quite a while.
 
You seem to be emotionally driven in this matter - "disgraceful", "sad" and so on are emotional responses not rational argumentation.
I note you repeatedly avoid answering my question.

You used the word 'sad'.

Not taking proper measures to protect children from seeing porn is illegal and obviously immoral - and, yes, disgraceful. For reasons that remain unexplained, you, others here and society in general appear to find this difficult to acknowledge.
 
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I note you repeatedly avoid answering my question.

You used the word 'sad'.

Not taking proper measures to protect children from seeing porn is illegal and obviously immoral - and, yes, disgraceful. For reasons that remain unexplained, you, others here and society in general appear to find this difficult to acknowledge.
No one has found it difficult to acknowledge 1) illegal porn should be prosecuted and removed, 2) It is wrong that parents and guardians allow their kids to access porn from a young age, 3) Illegal access to pornography is wrong as well as illegal.
 
No one has found it difficult to acknowledge 1) illegal porn should be prosecuted and removed, 2) It is wrong that parents and guardians allow their kids to access porn from a young age, 3) Illegal access to pornography is wrong as well as illegal.
Right, but you still appear to be unwilling to actually acknowledge that Pronhub (et al) themselves are appalling companies for showing porn to children. Are they?

Pornhub's bussiness model is as many viewers as possible viewing as many videos as possible. The more children viewing the more they make (I believe their gross is somewhere around $500,000,000 with an operating margin of over 27%). According Laila Mickelwait, Pornhub had 4.6 billion ad impressions per day in 2020.

Which is where they make their money.

Pornhub profits from childhood curiosity. Correct?
 
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Pornhub profits from childhood curiosity. Correct?
I'm sure they're raking in hundreds of dollars from childhood curiosity clicks.

You could make the argument that it ought to be the standard for porn sites, to have more than a 'yes I am over 18' clickthrough gate, and I wouldn't object to a kid-captcha to weed out anyone who can't google 90s politics trivia or something. But I'm a hard no on KOSA style ID verification. Scope too big. No thanks.
 
Artists have 'exhibitions' or 'art shows'; they show their work to whomever - anyone who is interested in their work or anyone interested in art in general. In the same way, Pornhub exhibits it's content and we know that children are (naturally) curious about sex.

No, that's not the same. That is a ludicrous comparison.
Are children invited to view exhibitions of porn by Pornhub? Can you link to one of these invitations? No, you can't. You're just flailing around now.
Are you an advocate of porn?
Yes.
Are you involved in the industry?
No. Had you paid any attention at all to the world outside your own head, you would know this. I've mentioned my profession repeatedly through the years I've been a member of this forum.
 
If society cared enough about the current extent of sexual assault and abuse then we would be doing something about it.

More nonsense. There are murders, so societies have a 'murder culture'? There are racists, so all societies have a 'racist culture'? You constantly go to extremes, and thereby undermine what could be a reasonable argument. This exaggeration and hyperbole just makes you look unhinged.
We wouldn't be tolerating the likes of Pornhub which, according to Laila Mickelwait, has the same 'VPs and executives' as they had in 2020 (after which they were forced to remove 80% of their content).

Yeah, this Pornhub obsession you have. Very odd. Very odd indeed.
Looking at this incident of having their videos removed, the picture is, naturally, more nuanced and less nasty than you would have us believe.
Pornhub has removed a majority of its content – millions of explicit videos – uploaded from unverified users as part of a series of changes following allegations that the site showed videos of child abuse and nonconsensual sexual behavior.

In a blog post Monday, the website said it had “enacted the most comprehensive safeguards in user-generated platform history,” including barring unverified uploaders from adding new content, eliminating the ability to download most videos and has removed all previously uploaded content that was not created by Pornhub’s verified content partners or members of its adult performer network.
“In today’s world, all social media platforms share the responsibility to combat illegal material.,” Pornhub stated. “Solutions must be driven by real facts and real experts. We hope we have demonstrated our dedication to leading by example.”
New York Times columnist Nicholas Kristof described recordings on Pornhub’s website of assaults of unconscious women and girls, including a naked video of a 14-year-old girl. He wrote that Pornhub allows videos to be downloaded directly from its site, leaving room for content to spread and be reuploaded to the internet even after it’s been taken down.

Pornhub denied the allegations, stating that any assertion it allows child sex abuse material (CSAM) on its platform is “irresponsible and flagrantly untrue.”

“Due to the nature of our industry, people’s preconceived notions of Pornhub’s values and processes often differ from reality — but it is counterproductive to ignore the facts regarding a subject as serious as CSAM, ” Pornhub said in a previous statement to CNN Business.

“We have zero tolerance for CSAM. Pornhub is unequivocally committed to combating CSAM, and has instituted an industry-leading trust and safety policy to identify and eradicate illegal material from our community.”

So, a very different picture from the complacent tolerance of violent and/or child porn that you want us to believe. Annoying, isn't it, when the facts get in the way of your self-righteous ranting?
We wouldn't tolerate children being exposed to easy access porn.

We don't tolerate it. Stop this: it's just embarrassing.
We wouldn't be blurring the lines between the illegal and legal - viz.: The Free Speech Coalition overturning (2002) the US proscription of the portrayal of minors in porn (in Canada it is illegal).
Again, your sour and puritanical world view is preventing you from posting the full picture. I gues I'll have to do it myself:
The First Amendment provides that "Congress shall make no law... abridging the freedom of speech". The Court opined that imposing a criminal sanction on protected speech is a "stark example of speech suppression", but at the same time, that sexual abuse of children "is a most serious crime and an act repugnant to the moral instincts of a decent people." "Congress may pass valid laws to protect children from abuse, and it has." The great difficulty with the two provisions of the CPPA at issue in this case was that they included categories of speech other than obscenity and child pornography, and thus were overbroad.

The Court concluded that the "CPPA prohibits speech despite its serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value." In particular, it prohibits the visual depiction of teenagers engaged in sexual activity, a "fact of modern society and has been a theme in art and literature throughout the ages." Such depictions include performances of Romeo and Juliet, by William Shakespeare; the 1996 film William Shakespeare's Romeo + Juliet, directed by Baz Luhrmann; and the Academy Award winning movies Traffic and American Beauty. "If these films, or hundreds of others of lesser note that explore those subjects, contain a single graphic depiction of sexual activity within the statutory definition, the possessor of the film would be subject to severe punishment without inquiry into the work's redeeming value. This is inconsistent with an essential First Amendment rule: The artistic merit of a work does not depend on the presence of a single explicit scene."
But speech prohibited by the CPPA "records no crime and creates no victims by its production."
The First Amendment draws a distinction between words and deeds, and does not tolerate banning of mere words simply because those words could lead to bad deeds. Although the CPPA's objective was to prohibit illegal conduct, it went well beyond that goal by restricting speech available to law-abiding adults.

Once again, the full facts show a society deeply concerned about abuse and exploitation of minors- the polar opposite of what you seem to believe, and what you are trying to persuade- well, actually, browbeat- us into accepting too.
I think this thread says a lot more about you than you intended.
 
Regarding the effects of pornography on children, all I can contribute are my own recollections.

In my childhood, porn was scarce, and valuable to the point of being treasured. Prepubescents as much as randy teens, and girls as avidly as boys, hoped just for glimpses and consumed them excitedly.

Back in those days, remember, porn was about all the sex education we got. (The very few printed "guides to growing up" we encountered were porn in themselves, and circulated just as furtively.) "Durty pitchers" can provide only very basic instruction -- but b'god it was useful, maybe sufficient for our simple country needs, and, importantly, it was encouraging. Here were grownups validating our primordial horniness! Grownups from towns and cities! Damn right it did us good!

These kids nowadays have to scroll and fast forward through all that tiresome adultoid fantasy to get to the essential jollies. Poor tykes. I'd help them if I could.
 
Despite Poem's sanctimonious posturing, a closer reading of his own sources undermines his hysterical arguments even more.
Remember Rachel de Souza's report, which Poem has leant so heavily on? He has quoted parts of it, to show that, as he sees it, society doesn't give a monkey's about children having access to porn, and so therefore we are all part of some imagined "rape culture".
What he has not commented on is the fact that this report has been acted on. The Online Safety Bill was introduced, and then toughened up, to address exactly this problem.
Children and adults across the UK will be better protected by the pioneering Online Safety Bill thanks to several critical amendments made by the government as it passes through the House of Lords.
Planned rules to prevent children from viewing pornography...have been bolstered.
Updates to the Bill will hold services that publish or allow pornography on their sites to a new higher standard on the age verification or age estimation tools they use, meaning they will have to ensure that these are highly effective in establishing whether a user is a child or not. New measures will also hold top tech executives personally responsible for keeping children safe on their platforms.

Minister for Technology and the Digital Economy Paul Scully said:

This Government will not allow the lives of our children to be put at stake whenever they go online; whether that is through facing abuse or viewing harmful content that could go on to have a devastating impact on their lives.

Once again, the reality of people's wishes and actions is far removed from the picture of complacent depravity that Poem is painting.
Once again, I expect Poem to sail straight past this, and to continue his puritanical crusade. Once a zealot, always a zealot.
 
Not motor vehicle transport (other than the ones listed above). Waking, paddling, cycling, horses, or sailing will get you there eventually. For the infirm or disabled there are carts, carriages, rickshaws, and wheelchairs. Nothing that can be hauled by motor vehicle cannot also be hauled by wheelbarrows, barges, or sledges dragged by teams of hundreds of laborers hauling on long ropes. This is for the children, remember. Don't tell me you're not willing to spend your days hauling on a rope to save children's lives!
Let's assume that slavery were still legal - would you use the same (or similar) argument against calls for it's abolition?
 
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Regarding the effects of pornography on children, all I can contribute are my own recollections.

In my childhood, porn was scarce, and valuable to the point of being treasured. Prepubescents as much as randy teens, and girls as avidly as boys, hoped just for glimpses and consumed them excitedly.

Back in those days, remember, porn was about all the sex education we got. (The very few printed "guides to growing up" we encountered were porn in themselves, and circulated just as furtively.) "Durty pitchers" can provide only very basic instruction -- but b'god it was useful, maybe sufficient for our simple country needs, and, importantly, it was encouraging. Here were grownups validating our primordial horniness! Grownups from towns and cities! Damn right it did us good!

These kids nowadays have to scroll and fast forward through all that tiresome adultoid fantasy to get to the essential jollies. Poor tykes. I'd help them if I could.
'Helping them' in the UK (at least) would result in a lengthy prison sentence.

Rachel de Souza's lambasting of Meta over unsuitable material being made available to children would also be directed towards you sackett. She said:
"frankly [tech firms] are multi-billion companies, they should be having a moral compass and doing this now".

Where is your moral compass sackett?
 
Let's assume that slavery were still legal - would you use the same (or similar) argument against calls for it's abolition?

Slavery isn't legal. Motor vehicles are, and they are the largest or second largest cause of child deaths. (ETA: In the U.S.)

Before we talk about other scenarios how about you answer my question first. Do you support the abolition of all motor vehicles apart from fire engines, ambulances, and police cars, to save children's lives?
 
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Naturally, where children are concerned, there is no need to be explicit in sex education.

No "explicit" materials are needed in sex education for "children." So of course you'll push for laws that refer to standard legal definitions of "children" as anyone under 18, and define "explicit" so as to include any pictorial guide to breast self-examination, any anatomical diagram of male or female genitalia, or any description or illustration of any body part or object, including tampons or contraceptive devices, ever entering a vagina. Because "children" "naturally" have "no need" of such things until they've been menstruating for five or six years already.

You're not advocating protection, you're advocating ignorance, like countless sexual tyrants before you. No need for teens to even know sex exists, until they get married or into the Lord of the Manor's bedroom where he'll properly educate them himself.
 
Slavery isn't legal. Motor vehicles are, and they are the largest or second largest cause of child deaths. (ETA: In the US.)
You didn't answer my question and ignored the fact that I noted that slavery is legal.
Before we talk about other scenarios how about you answer my question first. Do you support the abolition of all motor vehicles apart from fire engines, ambulances, and police cars, to save children's lives?
This is older and has been ignored. Twice.

You are not comparing like with like. Showing porn to a child is always bad. I take it you agree? A child riding in a motor vehicle is not bad in itself. Also, I have argued that porn is having a dramatic impact on society's values in general with a blurring of red lines that are constantly being pushed to extremes.

Banning motorized vehicles would entail a massive restructuring of many of the world's economies and would not happen over night....but, sure, let's move in that direction. We could start with making stronger laws on speeding and DUI.

Porn does not have the utility that vehicle transport has.
 
No "explicit" materials are needed in sex education for "children." So of course you'll push for laws that refer to standard legal definitions of "children" as anyone under 18, and define "explicit" so as to include any pictorial guide to breast self-examination, any anatomical diagram of male or female genitalia, or any description or illustration of any body part or object, including tampons or contraceptive devices, ever entering a vagina. Because "children" "naturally" have "no need" of such things until they've been menstruating for five or six years already.

You're not advocating protection, you're advocating ignorance, like countless sexual tyrants before you. No need for teens to even know sex exists, until they get married or into the Lord of the Manor's bedroom where he'll properly educate them himself.
There is a grey area - and I have admitted as much, I'd rather have that problem than where we are now with many young people seeing violent and extreme porn.

Why don't you explain why you think we should allow rule 34? I'd say we are in the middle of a crisis of morality and the UK's Children's Commissioner's comments suggest I am not alone.

The issue you bring up is also equally an issue at the other extreme...so what is your point? Canada bans the depiction of children in porn (ie when actors are of legal age but are depicted as minors) but the USA does not (care of the Free Speech Coalition in 2002).

Do you support such depiction or not Myriad?
 
You didn't answer my question and ignored the fact that I noted that slavery is legal.

You noted that slavery is legal but slavery is in fact illegal.

You are not comparing like with like. Showing porn to a child is always bad. I take it you agree?

Of course I don't agree. You've worded it to make it sound impossible or highly irresponsible to disagree, but by now you've made it clear that when you say "showing" you actually mean that thing existing in the world at all, and when you say "porn" you actually mean any depiction of sex of any kind, including kissing and sex education content, and when you say "child" you mean anyone under eighteen years old, and when you say "bad" you mean it should be outlawed and punished by the criminal justice system. You're advocating laws that would make people subject to imprisonment for possessing a wedding album. When I point out this outrageous overreach, you tell me I'm "putting up hurdles."

I regard putting up hurdles to reactionary tyranny as a noble goal and I'll continue to do so to the best of my ability.
 
Of course I don't agree. You've worded it to make it sound impossible or highly irresponsible to disagree, but by now you've made it clear that when you say "showing" you actually mean that thing existing in the world at all, and when you say "porn" you actually mean any depiction of sex of any kind, including kissing and sex education content, and when you say "child" you mean anyone under eighteen years old, and when you say "bad" you mean it should be outlawed and punished by the criminal justice system. You're advocating laws that would make people subject to imprisonment for possessing a wedding album. When I point out this outrageous overreach, you tell me I'm "putting up hurdles."

I regard putting up hurdles to reactionary tyranny as a noble goal and I'll continue to do so to the best of my ability.

You are carping Myriad.

Do you think that it is immoral for Pornhub et al to upload material that children can and do regularly watch? It's a straight forward question...be the first to actually answer it on this thread...
 
I suggest you re-read my post. Please answer the question.

Okay, I'll answer.

"Let's assume that slavery were still legal - would you use the same (or similar) argument against calls for it's abolition?"

If there were a call for abolition I would pay attention to it. I would support it if it were reasonable.

How could it not be reasonable? Well, suppose the call for abolition defined "slavery" as "any work activity not financially compensated at at least legal minimum wage."

I would then point out that this proposed abolition would either outlaw, or require payment (taxable of course) for:
- Family members performing housework
- Students' schoolwork
- Volunteer work
- Apprenticeships and internships

Now, if the abolitionist replied something like, "OMG that's not what I meant, let me find a better way to define what I want to abolish," I might remain supportive provided they followed through on doing so. On the other hand, if they doubled down with "I'd rather have those problems, stop putting up hurdles" I'd oppose that extreme measure and look elsewhere for a more rational solution.
 
You are carping Myriad.

Do you think that it is immoral for Pornhub et al to upload material that children can and do regularly watch? It's a straight forward question...be the first to actually answer it on this thread...

Carping is a reasonable response to vagueness and doublespeak.

What the heck does "immoral" mean, or matter? There are billions of people on the planet who think it's immoral for my wife to walk around outdoors with her head uncovered. Should I care?

Meanwhile, many things are (as I see them) immoral but are perfectly legal and in many cases approved and applauded.

Why are you asking about what is or isn't moral when the measures you're proposing are legal?
 
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