Split Thread Diversity Equity and Inclusion and merit in employment etc

Next Arth is going to tell us that Best Korea is a democratic people's republic, according to the dictionary definitions of those words.

Though admittedly it is a Korea, so maybe he's onto something.

Or maybe he thinks that I think it's literally the best of the Koreas.
 
theprestige said:
Next Arth is going to tell us that Best Korea is a democratic people's republic, according to the dictionary definitions of those words.

Though admittedly it is a Korea, so maybe he's onto something.

Or maybe he thinks that I think it's literally the best of the Koreas.
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Oh, please tell me once again what I think and believe. You're soooo good at that.
 
arthwollipot said:
Oh, please tell me once again what I think and believe. You're soooo good at that.
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You told me what you think and believe: You're all about doctrinaire dictionary definitions.

Meanwhile you've skipped over several cogent rebuttals, to complain about this accurate characterization. If you don't like my portrayal, prove me wrong by addressing the rebuttals head on.
 
I think many of the rebuttals in the thread have been that DEI as experienced in the workplace by most members here is not the bugbear version.
 
I'd have some respect for an argument that went, "DEI is not necessary anymore because it's been successful".

But instead we are shovelled blatant sexist and racist hatred by DEI's opponents.
 
arthwollipot said:
Oh, please tell me once again what I think and believe. You're soooo good at that.
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The good news is that it doesn't matter what you think. The world is over peak woke and its enforcement wing, DEI. Here in the U.S., the Trump administration will eliminate DEI in the federal government and public universities and reinstate colorblind equal opportunity. Elite private American universities will face the choice of following suit or be relegated to the scrapheap of history. Science grants will return to being funded on the basis of their scientific merit rather than their ability to convince DEI bureaucrats that they will advance the ideology of Critical Social Justice. Corporations will figure out that their financial survival depends upon their hiring the best and the brightest without regard to job applicants' skin color. Europe will follow suit. Canada? Well, who knows. I'm just glad I'm not living in Canada. Ditto for New Zealand.
 
Guess what group doesn't require equity or inclusion?

A diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) administrator was reportedly fired from the University of Michigan (UM) after making antisemitic statements, The New York Times reported Thursday.

The administrator, Rachel Dawson, said that the university was “controlled by wealthy Jews,” and that Jewish students were “wealthy and privileged” and not in need of the university’s diversity services, according to The New York Times. The university has experienced countless antisemitic incidents since the start of the war in Gaza on Oct.7, 2023.
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BTW, I looked her up in images online, and she does not appear to be Jewish, despite the name.
 
arthwollipot said:
I'm not a policymaker. It's not my job. I'd be bad at it.

I will say that the Australian Public Service does a pretty good job of it.
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That's a fine excuse... however, that also disqualifies you from saying what is NOT DEI policy.

If you would like the privilege of dismissing other people's observations and experiences out of hand, as being "not real DEI", then you must have some reasonable way of explaining what "real DEI" actually is in application.
 
arthwollipot said:
So you say. Dogmatically.
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Well, since you are unable to actually provide any meaningful discourse with respect to what does and does not constitute "real DEI" in practice, then you're not actually countering jt512's observations, are you? You're doing nothing more than scoffing dismissively because you don't *like* what you're hearing.
 
Brainster said:
Guess what group doesn't require equity or inclusion?


BTW, I looked her up in images online, and she does not appear to be Jewish, despite the name.
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Is Dawson a traditionally jewish name? TBF, I'm really bad at knowing what is and is not a "traditionally x name". Outside of like some really blatant ones. Like, if it starts with "Mc" or "Mac" there's a high likelihood of scottish ancestry, or if it starts with "O'xxx" it's probably Irish. For jewish, I'm pretty much stuck with "contains some variation on Levi" and "ends in -berg".
 
Emily's Cat said:
Is Dawson a traditionally jewish name? TBF, I'm really bad at knowing what is and is not a "traditionally x name". Outside of like some really blatant ones. Like, if it starts with "Mc" or "Mac" there's a high likelihood of scottish ancestry, or if it starts with "O'xxx" it's probably Irish. For jewish, I'm pretty much stuck with "contains some variation on Levi" and "ends in -berg".
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I imagine he was referring to "Rachel".
 
arthwollipot said:
Precisely. I feel no need to rebut straw arguments and boogeypeople.
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Gosh, do we need specifics in this discussion!

Arth, what do you think about this (from Jerry Coyne's Why Evolution Is True site):
“The DEI competencies provided in this document are meant to define the skills, knowledge, and behaviors that all California Community College (CCC) employees must demonstrate:"

• “Promotes and incorporates DEI and anti-racist pedagogy.”
• “Develops and implements a pedagogy and/or curriculum that promotes a race-conscious and intersectional lens.”
• “Contributes to DEI and anti-racism research and scholarship.”
• “Articulates the importance and impact of DEI and anti-racism as part of the institution’s greater mission.”
• “Advocates for and advances DEI and anti-racist goals and initiatives.”
• “Leads DEI and anti-racist efforts by participating in DEI groups, committees, or community activities that promote systemic and cultural change to close equity gaps and support minoritized groups.”
• “Participates in a continuous cycle of self-assessment of one’s growth and commitment to DEI and acknowledgement of any internalized personal biases and racial superiority or inferiority.”
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Source
From a definitions page:
Merit: A concept that at face value appears to be a neutral measure of academic achievement and qualifications; however, merit is embedded in the ideology of Whiteness and upholds race-based structural inequality. Merit protects White privilege under the guise of standards (i.e., the use of standardized tests that are biased against racial minorities) and as highlighted by anti-affirmative action forces. Merit implies that White people are deemed better qualified and more worthy but are denied opportunities due to race-conscious policies. However, this understanding of merit and worthiness fails to recognize systemic oppression, racism, and generational privilege afforded to Whites.
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jt512 said:
Here in the U.S., the Trump administration will eliminate DEI in the federal government and public universities and reinstate colorblind equal opportunity.
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DEI became a thing in the first place largely because it was demonstrated that equal opportunity wasn't actually happening AND that companies could potentially get in legal trouble on that front. I don't see any reason to believe that "reinstate colorblind equal opportunity" is in any way accurate, either for the history or actual goals in play.

The Trump Administration likely will go after DEI, though, yes. It's also likely that the "colorblind equal opportunity" that you look forward to will be a perversion of the concept.
 
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The consequences of DEI outside the United States as posted on Jerry Coyne's blog...

Registered nurses in Aotearoa New Zealand incorporate knowledge, concepts and worldviews of both
tangata whenua and tangata tiriti into practice. Registered nurses uphold and enact ngā mātāpono
– principles of Te Tiriti o Waitangi, based on the Kawa Whakaruruhau framework and cultural safety,
promoting equity, inclusion, diversity, and rights of Māori as tangata whenua. These concepts also relate to
Pacific peoples and all population groups to support quality services that are culturally safe and responsive.
Registered nurses are accountable and responsible for their nursing practice, ensuring that all health care
provided is consistent with their education, assessed competence, relevant legislative requirements, and is
guided by the Nursing Council of New Zealand’s standards for registered nurses.
Registered nurses use substantial scientific and nursing knowledge to inform comprehensive assessments,
determine health needs, develop differential diagnoses, plan care and determine appropriate interventions.
Interventions are evaluated to assess care outcomes based on clinical judgement and scientific and
professional knowledge.
Registered nurses practise independently and in collaboration with individuals, their whānau, communities,
and the interprofessional healthcare team, to deliver equitable person/whānau/ whakapapa-centred
nursing care across the life span in all settings.
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https://nursingcouncil.org.nz/common/Uploaded files/Public/Publications/Consultation Documents/Standards of Competence Consultation Nov 24/Registered nurse standards of competence.pdf

Coyne's commentary on this document is linked below.

whyevolutionistrue.com

“The latest from the asylum”: New Zealand nurses directed to foster, accept, and prioritize indigenous culture, including specious “ways of healing”

The bit in quotes in the title may be a bit mean, but it’s the title an anonymous reader gave in an email linking to several articles from a New Zealand site (here, here, and here). The artic…
whyevolutionistrue.com whyevolutionistrue.com
 
Emily's Cat said:
That's a fine excuse... however, that also disqualifies you from saying what is NOT DEI policy.

If you would like the privilege of dismissing other people's observations and experiences out of hand, as being "not real DEI", then you must have some reasonable way of explaining what "real DEI" actually is in application.
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I thought I just did. I gave you a comprehensive set of DEI policies that work. Not my fault if you didn't click on the link.

Emily's Cat said:
Well, since you are unable to actually provide any meaningful discourse with respect to what does and does not constitute "real DEI" in practice, then you're not actually countering jt512's observations, are you? You're doing nothing more than scoffing dismissively because you don't *like* what you're hearing.
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There's a difference between "I don't like what you're saying" and "what you're saying is obvious and absolute crap and anybody who isn't deep in the antiwoke propaganda machine can see it."

Paul2 said:
Arth, what do you think about this (from Jerry Coyne's Why Evolution Is True site):
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I think Jerry Coyne is a wanker and a dickhead and I don't pay any attention to anything he says.
 
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