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Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

It was his friendship with Manning that caused Craig Murray to be so vehemently pro-trans in every possible way. I don't suppose this will put him off, but it does rather give the lie to his characterisation of Manning as being so kind and generous and inoffensive.
 
Pixel42 said:
There are unisex facilities all over the Capitol. That clearly isn't enough for Manning et al.
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Right but isn't it a bit weird to see women being protected by the patriarchy in this particular case?

I mean, why should the Congressmen even have a voice on this?
 
d4m10n said:
Right but isn't it a bit weird to see women being protected by the patriarchy in this particular case?

I mean, why should the Congressmen even have a voice on this?
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It's not the gender, it's the office. The one with authority should have the decisive voice. The office has been held by women, too.
 
d4m10n said:
Right but isn't it a bit weird to see women being protected by the patriarchy in this particular case?

I mean, why should the Congressmen even have a voice on this?
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For the same reasons that I have a voice.

I am a man - I have opinions and a voice on this, and they both support women's rights, and the concept of having women-only safe spaces. I find the idea that biological males ought to be allowed free and unfettered access to women's shelters, rape crisis centres, toilets, changing rooms, prisons and sports to be utterly abhorrent. Further, the idea that women should have this forced upon them over their objections is even more abhorrent.

Is this virtue-signalling on my part? No, it is not!
Is this me being a patronizing male? No it is not!
Is this me putting his unwanted man's nose into women's business. No it is not!

So, what is this then? It is the kicking-in of the paternal instinct to protect the women in my life from harm; my daughters and granddaughters, my female colleagues and my female friends. These people are very important to me - I would do anything to protect them from harm (and as I have made clear in this thread previously, I have broken the law in my country to protect them, and will continue to do so).

But I'd go further than that. I'd argue that ANY men who have wives/partners, daughters, granddaughters, and who take the TRA side in this issue, and who think it's OK to allow the abrogation of the rights of women with regard to the issues being debated here, is failing in their duty to protect the women in their lives.
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smartcooky said:
For the same reasons that I have a voice.

I am a man - I have opinions and a voice on this, and they both support women's rights, and the concept of having women-only safe spaces. I find the idea that biological males ought to be allowed free and unfettered access to women's shelters, rape crisis centres, toilets, changing rooms, prisons and sports to be utterly abhorrent. Further, the idea that women should have this forced upon them over their objections is even more abhorrent.

Is this virtue-signalling on my part? No, it is not!
Is this me being a patronizing male? No it is not!
Is this me putting his unwanted man's nose into women's business. No it is not!

So, what is this then? It is the kicking-in of the paternal instinct to protect the women in my life from harm; my daughters and granddaughters, my female colleagues and my female friends. These people are very important to me - I would do anything to protect them from harm (and as I have made clear in this thread previously, I have broken the law in my country to protect them, and will continue to do so).

But I'd go further than that. I'd argue that ANY men who have wives/partners, daughters, granddaughters, and who take the TRA side in this issue, and who think it's OK to allow the abrogation of the rights of women with regard to the issues being debated here, is failing in their duty to protect the women in their lives.
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Total nonsense. What you are doing is saying there is a problem when there isn't. I'm a man too. And I care very much about women being safe. They are right now without any action by the government. This is a boogeyman problem. It doesn't exist.
 
Could you possibly address at least one of the arguments that have been made in the thread disputing your assertion, acbytesla? Otherwise you look like all the other posters who make unsupported assertions on this topic (in this thread and others), and just insult anyone who disagrees.

Here's a simple recent statement of one of the major issues that many of us see with unquestioningly acceding to all TRA demands, perhaps you could start by explaining why you disagree with it.

Emily's Cat said:
The actual argument is that giving a subset of males a special dispensation to violate female boundaries on the basis of their subjective and unverifiable internal feelings about themselves has the easily foreseeable effect of entitling ALL MALES to violate female boundaries at their whim, and removes any vestige of safety or dignity for females.
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acbytesla said:
Total nonsense. What you are doing is saying there is a problem when there isn't. I'm a man too. And I care very much about women being safe. They are right now without any action by the government. This is a boogeyman problem. It doesn't exist.
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Sorry, but I think you are living in a fools paradise. This problem does exist, and is more prevalent than you think

Both of my daughters have been confronted by men in public toilets. One of the men claimed he had every right to be there. He became aggressive and verbally abusive when my daughter told him to get out.


ETA: If you don't believe crimes by trangender people is a real issue, you need to do some research on the subject. Here's a primer for you

2024 MURDERS
Fangze Wang/Scarlet Blake: Murder of a 30 year old Spanish man, Jorge Martin Carreno, in July 2021
Joanna Rowland-Stuart: Charged with the murder of Andrew Rowland-Stuart (partner of accused)
Steve Wright: Charged with the murder and kidnap of 17-year-old Victoria Hall in September 1999 and the attempted kidnap of a 22-year-old woman the previous night -

2024 SEXUAL OFFENCES WITH CHILD VICTIMS
Anthony/Aria Peers: Two counts of rape, attempted rape, three charges of sexual assault and two offences of inciting a child (a young girl) to engage in sexual activity
Joanna Evans: Multiple sexual assault offences against three young boys
Thomas Quinn/Chloee-Mae Danvers: Multiple child sex offences including attempting to engage in sexual communication with a child and possession of indecent images of children
Samantha Norris: Three counts of making indecent photographs of a child, possession of a prohibited image of a child, and possession of extreme pornographic images depicting sexual assault of an animal
Andrew Easton: Downloading and distributing indecent images of children
Janiel Verainer/Jorven Seren: Repeat child sex offender convicted of multiple SHPO breaches
Nigel/Emma Davies: Making indecent images of children and failing to surrender to court

2024 SEXUAL OFFENCES WITH ADULT VICTIMS
Cameron Downing: Sexual assault of six young adults (and additional assault/domestic violence offences)
Alexander/Lexi Secker: Rape of a woman
Kurtis Mawson: Sexual assault on a female, voyeurism, three counts of making indecent photographs of a child and possessing an extreme pornographic image, SHPO breaches
Freddie/Xenia Jade Millar: Rapist convicted of breaching a SHPO and breaching sex offender notification requirements
Charged for suspected sex offences:
Osareen Omoruyi: Charged with two counts each of sexual assault by penetration and causing/inciting a child to engage in sexual activity
David/Denise Flynn: Charged with multiple indecent exposure offences
Arrested in connection with suspected sex offences:
David Griffiths/Penny Price: Convicted sex offender arrested in January 2024 after allegedly being caught in a sting operation by a paedophile hunter group

2024 OTHER VIOLENT OFFENCES
Scarlet Blake: Murderer (see above) who also tortured and killed a cat before putting it in a blender)
Louise Thomas (believed to be new identity of violent trans sex offender Lewis Foord): Assault causing actual bodily harm (ABH) of a young woman
Jason Graham/Evans: Assault of a woman (a nurse at the hospital where Graham/Evans, a rapist and murderer, was being treated)
Paris Bregazzi: Serial violent offender convicted of assaulting six women in September and of racially aggravated assault by beating of another woman in November
David/Davina Moore: Multiple offences including two arsons, criminal damage and harassment of family members
Marcus Smith/Adam Hodgson/Layla Le Fey: Four counts of sending an offensive/obscene/menacing message via public communication network (threats posted on Twitter/X to women’s rights campaigners)
Andrew Fleming/Susan Hope: Violently threatening and harassing a female neighbour and her husband, assault of a police officer
Rebecca Lowe: Possession of an offensive weapon (after violent altercation with a neighbour)
Alan/Alannah Morgan: Behaving in a threatening or abusive manner on multiple occasions towards an MP and his staff, and two charges of graffitiing business premises
Mark/Marcia Walker: Child rapist convicted of multiple further offences while in prison, including physical attacks on two prison officers and sending threatening voicemails, letters and emails to prison staff
Ella Potter: Threatening and abusive behaviour towards the police and a member of the public

But hey folks, nothing to see here but boogeymen. Amirite?
 
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d4m10n said:
The women who would overwhelmingly vote for unisex integration, given the chance to do so with their male colleagues abstaining.
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I think this is a class split. Upper class women don’t really care about the threat from predatory males posing as females, because they’re largely immune to it. It’s lower class women who bear the brunt of that. And class very frequently is more important than sex in one’s identity.
 
theprestige said:
It's not the gender, it's the office. The one with authority should have the decisive voice.
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This is just an appeal to authority.

I'm asking why the men shouldn't voluntarily defer to the women—all of whom hold the same office—on an issue which only (potentially) effects the latter group. Why do these men feel like they need to protect the women from their own values and ideas? That approach seems fatherly at best, patriarchal at worst.
 
d4m10n said:
This is just an appeal to authority.

I'm asking why the men shouldn't voluntarily defer to the women—all of whom hold the same office—on an issue which only (potentially) effects the latter group. Why do these men feel like they need to protect the women from their own values and ideas?
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You say that as if congresswomen and female senators are the only women affected. But they aren’t. If you want to go by who is affected, why not give all the female staffers a vote? Why not give all the female visitors to the capitol a vote?
 
Ziggurat said:
If you want to go by who is affected, why not give all the female staffers a vote? Why not give all the female visitors to the capitol a vote?
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Is it your view that Congressmen are a good proxy for those female interest groups?

I mean, you bring up a good point but patriarchy probably isn't the answer.
 
d4m10n said:
Is it your view that Congressmen are a good proxy for those female interest groups?
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I’m saying your premise of the correct way to decide this is fundamentally wrong.
d4m10n said:
I mean, you bring up a good point but patriarchy probably isn't the answer.
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If I was arguing that it should only be men deciding this, you’d have a point. But I’m not, and it doesn’t. This isn’t patriarchy by any sensible definition of the word.
 
d4m10n said:
What percentage of the decision makers would be female in a full House vote?
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What percentage of voters who elected those representatives are female? Is a man elected by women an agent of the patriarchy, or the matriarchy? Or is that perhaps not the right lens through which to view everything?
 
Ziggurat said:
What percentage of voters who elected those representatives are female?
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What percentage of those voters were ever given a female choice, even in the primaries?

Seems to me that men ought to gracefully bow out of decisions about women's health, bodies, privacy, etc. unless they have no choice but to address the issue (e.g. appeals courts). If there are women who can make the choice, let them do so.
 
d4m10n said:
What percentage of those voters were ever given a female choice, even in the primaries?
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Given a choice? Are women somehow incapable of running unless a man allows them to?
d4m10n said:
Seems to me that men ought to gracefully bow out of decisions about women's health, bodies, privacy, etc. unless they have no choice but to address the issue (e.g. appeals courts).
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Seems to me that the idea that we should split democracy into a women’s section and a men’s section is pretty god damn patronizing. Also, as a father, I’m not going to bow out of decisions that affect my daughter. ◊◊◊◊ you and ◊◊◊◊ anyone else who thinks I don’t have a role in that. And before you claim that’s patriarchal, my wife has just as much of a role in what happens to my son.
 
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