Does 'rape culture' accurately describe (many) societies?

[Poem]

Your source:

New scorecards show under 1% of reported rapes lead to conviction – criminologist explains why England’s justice system continues to fail | City St George's, University of London

Dr Katrin Hohl, a criminologist at City, University of London, assesses why rape prosecutions are so low, why cases take so long, and why most victims withdraw their case.

www.city.ac.uk

The relevant passage:
"Long delays in cases progressing through the system are directly linked to a decade of government funding cuts to the justice system. In the words of one prominent barrister: “having broken the legs of the justice system, the government now wants to score how fast it can run”."

theprestige pointed out that your own source indicates that there is a problem with prosecuting and convicting criminals across all crimes in the UK, not just rape.

I'm sure there are crimes other than rape that have poor conviction rates, but rape is the only crime in the piece explicitly described as 'effectively decriminalized'.

 

[Poem]

P, is your position that children were less exposed to sexual content before the rise of the Internet?
Like at the time they lived in a single room with their siblings and parents?

That scenario compares with 24/7 almost anything goes porn? How many parents invited their children into the bed to get a close up of penetration?

 

[Poem]

Maybe Poem wants me to cite Dr Katrin Hohl's source for that quote in her article. She says it's a "prominent barrister", but then cites an anonymous message on Twitter.

Is that what you were looking for, Poem? Ironically, that anonymous person on Twitter cites an article in The Telegraph, that talks specifically about court delays and poor service across the board. Rape is "effectively decriminalized" because violent crime in general is "effectively decriminalized" by budget cuts. That's not rape culture. That's poor governance.

Also, if an anonymous Twitter user is Dr Hohl's idea of a "prominent barrister", then I'm not really going to take her seriously on whatever subject she's blathering about.

Does the Telegraph article say that violent crime is effectively decriminalized?

 

[The Great Zaganza]

That scenario compares with 24/7 almost anything goes porn? How many parents invited their children into the bed to get a close up of penetration?

too many, probably.,
In any case, they observed their parents having intercourse since their earliest days. And streets full of prostitutes all hours of the day.

Compared to those times, our society is very chaste indeed.

 

[Darat]

I do think there is a data point that indicates that rape is much more acceptable than I think many of us would like to admit.

 

[Poem]

too many, probably.,
In any case, they observed their parents having intercourse since their earliest days. And streets full of prostitutes all hours of the day.

Compared to those times, our society is very chaste indeed.

I accept that this will have occurred to some degree. I don't see it as anything like modern porn availability.

We know without doubt that children do watch porn - even extreme porn. We also know that it causes 'severe harm'. Do you have a citation on the extent of the scenario you describe?

 

[Poem]

I do think there is a data point that indicates that rape is much more acceptable than I think many of us would like to admit.

You are suggesting that a significant minority sees rape as normalized?

 

[Darat]

You are suggesting that a significant minority sees rape as normalized?

Or not that important.

 

[Poem]

Or not that important.

Means pretty much the same thing.

As evidenced by the re-election of Trump?

 

[The Great Zaganza]

In Honor Cultures, Rape has a significant social function in that it is the means to lower the reputation of the "man of the house", husband or father, of the women raped. Hence the need for men to be seen to be able and willing to defend the "honor" of their women (actually their own honor) with force.
It is a cliche with a lot of truth behind it that most barfights start with one man suggesting that another man's mother/wife/daughter is of easy virtue.

 

[Poem]

That's a good point. Porn itself isn't inherently bad, and it doesn't cause most people to commit rape. There is even some evidence that it reduces the tendency to rape. But there is one 'drug' that is a big part of our culture which is inherently bad - alcohol. It's a poison, which just happens to have an effect on the brain that many people crave - and some are addicted to. Another bad thing about alcohol is that children are permitted to watch people drinking it, even when behaving badly.

If porn isn't inherently bad then why not just let it all hang out...in public? We 'hide' it. Why?

Moderate consumption of alcohol need not be problematic.

But one thing about it is far worse - alcohol is a date-rape drug. In fact, alcohol is the drug most commonly involved in drug-facilitated sexual assaults. Alcohol also reduces inhibitions and increases aggressiveness, especially in men. You would think that these properties would cause it to be banned in places where it might facilitate rape. But no, it flows freely and is often the main attraction in places where women (and men) are most vulnerable.

It has to be acknowledge that alcohol indulgence is a massive problem.

If you are really concerned about reducing rape, target the activities that are mostly responsible. Porn isn't it. Ask the police and rape crisis centers etc., and they will tell you what is. Our society isn't so much a 'rape culture' as it is a drug culture, especially alcohol. And this isn't just causing rapes. It's also responsible for the majority of violent acts, and a large proportion of road injuries and deaths, and destruction of property (ask me about that!), and serious disease and medical conditions too, as well as wreaking relationships and lives.

The police have and do say porn is a problem. Have cited on this repeatedly.

Yet strangly, Poem doesn't appear to have mentioned the word 'alcohol' even once in this thread. Why not? Could it be that Poem is focusing on something of minor importance while ignoring the elephant in the room? I hope I am wrong, and Poem is actually leading the charge to get rid of this scourge from our society. And I certianly hope (s)he doesn't indulge in it - even a little bit - as that would be the height of hypocricy.

I'd have no hesitation in banning alcohol in recognition of the mayhem it causes. It might be possible to allow responsible consumers to drink it...idk.

 

[Ziggurat]

I'm sure there are crimes other than rape that have poor conviction rates, but rape is the only crime in the piece explicitly described as 'effectively decriminalized'.

So? That's just an issue of framing. You based your argument for rape being decriminalized on the low conviction rate. Under that logic, any crime with a low conviction rate is decriminalized, whether someone describes it that way or not.

 

[Poem]

Yet strangly, Poem doesn't appear to have mentioned the word 'alcohol' even once in this thread. Why not? Could it be that Poem is focusing on something of minor importance while ignoring the elephant in the room? I hope I am wrong, and Poem is actually leading the charge to get rid of this scourge from our society. And I certianly hope (s)he doesn't indulge in it - even a little bit - as that would be the height of hypocricy.

I (he) does occasionally drink some alcohol.

 

[Poem]

So? That's just an issue of framing. You based your argument for rape being decriminalized on the low conviction rate. Under that logic, any crime with a low conviction rate is decriminalized, whether someone describes it that way or not.

It was Vera Baird who made the 'effectively decriminalized' assertion regarding rape.

 

[Poem]

If you would not have sex knowing that children could be watching and hearing you, then you are or should be against the porn status quo (let's assume that they are totally beyond your perception).

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

I do think there is a data point that indicates that rape is much more acceptable than I think many of us would like to admit.

It is, but it is for a wholehost of reasons that Poem is unwilling to admit even exist, because they will take away from their anti-porn crusade.

 

[Poem]

It is, but it is for a wholehost of reasons that Poem is unwilling to admit even exist, because they will take away from their anti-porn crusade.

I accept that porn isn't the only reason.

The status quo of porn saturation is a shocking revelation of human will and desire; it should be an deeply uncomfortable one. It's time to push back against it - particularly the abuse of showing porn to the underage...the very least that we should be doing.

 

[Myriad]

If you would not have sex knowing that children could be watching and hearing you, then you are or should be against the porn status quo (let's assume that they are totally beyond your perception).

I would not have sex with a man; should I be against other people doing so? I would not jump out of an airplane; should I be against other people doing so? I would not climb a Himalayan summit; should I be against other people doing so? I would not go on pilgrimage to pray at the Kaaba; should I be against other people doing so?

On the other hand; I sometimes swim in ice cold water in winter. Most people, I gather, would not do this. Should they be against my doing so? Are you?

There's a general term we use to refer collectively to all the things that we would not do ourselves, and perhaps would even prefer others not to do either, but we permit them to do anyway. Do you know this word? It's called "freedom."

 

[Poem]

I would not have sex with a man; should I be against other people doing so? I would not jump out of an airplane; should I be against other people doing so? I would not climb a Himalayan summit; should I be against other people doing so? I would not go on pilgrimage to pray at the Kaaba; should I be against other people doing so?

On the other hand; I sometimes swim in ice cold water in winter. Most people, I gather, would not do this. Should they be against my doing so? Are you?

There's a general term we use to refer collectively to all the things that we would not do ourselves, and perhaps would even prefer others not to do either, but we permit them to do anyway. Do you know this word? It's called "freedom."

Are you saying the UK is wrong to make it illegal? Doing it can result in 1-3 years in custody.

 

[Poem]

According to AI:

Yes, in the United States, it is illegal to have sex in front of a child.