"Misgendering" is now a federal offense

[Thermal]

I don't know man, some things are ok to just concede. Not everything is a big enough deal to require justification

Agreed. Whether Richard is letting little Richard loose in a locker room ain't a little deal.

 

[theprestige]

How many people are transgender? Not a very great percentage of the population, I would surmise.

Why is the state of being transgender of so much concern as to make it a political matter?

The discussion of trans rights in public policy would be very different, if those rights were actually concerned with the infinitesimal population of people who have been diagnosed with gender dysphoria and prescribed social transition - including transcending sex segregation - as the best treatment known to medical science for their condition.

 

[Donal]

Those are all none answers.

Because it was a pointless quesiton. And "it';s jsut good manners" is an answer.

Those are "Why did you pick the left door?" answered with "I HAVE A RIGHT TO PICK WHATEVER DOOR I WANT!" I'm not questioning your right to pick the door, I'm asking why. If you can't grasp that that isn't the same question let me know now so I won't keep trying.

But your quesiton is immaterial.

This "I don't have to prove nothing to nobody" chip on the shoulder is not doing anyone good when people are out there honestly asking for the why, not challenging the "Do you have a right to?"

Because the "why" is often predicated on challenging said right in these cases.

 

[theprestige]

Because it was a pointless quesiton. And "it';s jsut good manners" is an answer.

Telling me I have to pretend to perceive you as the opposite of your biological sex, otherwise you'll commit suicide and it will be my fault, is never good manners, no matter how many proxies you filter it through, no matter how many authorities you co-opt to enforce your demand.

 

[Donal]

How many people are transgender? Not a very great percentage of the population, I would surmise.

Why is the state of being transgender of so much concern as to make it a political matter?

Surely this country and the world face greater, and graver, concerns than this? Can't ordinary decency and compassion govern our behavior toward a tiny number of poor creatures like these?

And where decency fails, aren't there long-established laws to protect individual rights?

I said "poor creatures" because they stir my pity.

Because the people who drive this culture war nonsense either have no idea how to address those problems or they benefit directly from prolonging them. After all, the more time you spend worrying to death about who might have the wrong genitals at a high school basketball game i na town you've never heard of, the elss time you have to think about who is pumping toxic waste into the water your kids drink.

 

[Thermal]

How many people are transgender? Not a very great percentage of the population, I would surmise.

Why is the state of being transgender of so much concern as to make it a political matter?

Surely this country and the world face greater, and graver, concerns than this? Can't ordinary decency and compassion govern our behavior toward a tiny number of poor creatures like these?

And where decency fails, aren't there long-established laws to protect individual rights?

I said "poor creatures" because they stir my pity.

Because the implications are far-reaching. In the recent Olympics we just had an issue with allegedly bio men competing against women. The gender gig needs to get ironed out before half the boys in high school declare themselves gender fluid and jump in the girls showers, among other scenarios.

 

[Donal]

Because the implications are far-reaching. In the recent Olympics we just had an issue with allegedly bio men competing against women.

Thanks for bringing up that lie. Do you see how such accusations are weaponized? Do you see how many suckers who thought a biological male was boxing against women lost their puny minds?

The gender gig needs to get ironed out before half the boys in high school declare themselves gender fluid and jump in the girls showers, among other scenarios.

Helen Lovejoy approves of this message.

 

[Thermal]

Thanks for bringing up that lie. Do you see how such accusations are weaponized? Do you see how many suckers who thought a biological male was boxing against women lost their puny minds?

The bigger issue was finding out that your sex was based on self reporting, on your passport, and the IOC acted like a doctored passport couldn't be a thing.

Eta: and it still doesn't appear to be a "lie". Seems they are both bio males.

Helen Lovejoy approves of this message.

Not as worried about the children as the late adolecents and early adults. You know, high schoolers.

 

[smartcooky]

No matter how you slice it, denying that a person is royal is not the same thing as denying that that person is male or female

I disagree.

Transwomen are biologically male. This is an irrefutable, undeniable scientific fact. If you refer to a transwoman as "she" then you are acknowledging their spurious claim to be female, and in so doing, are denying an irrefutable, undeniable scientific fact.

Now, some people will call me transphobic for this. I am not. I not only have no fear of trans-people and do not feel at all threatened by them, but I regard them as ordinary people who simply have a different view of their own sexuality from other people, and in that aspect, no different from gays or lesbians, celibates or nymphomaniacs, those who support the rights of people to be sex workers, and those who don't. They (should) have the right to love whoever they want, live wherever they wish and associate with whoever they choose. They are a part of our communities.

However, those rights must never be allowed to abrogate the rights of others. Allowing biological males to use female toilets, to be incarcerated in female prisons, and to participate in female sports not only abrogates the rights of females, it endangers them both personally and physically. Calling a male "he/him" and calling a female "she/her" is NOT transphobic, but it is the thin end of the wedge, the first step in forcing society to accede to the demands of trans-radical activists. Well, I refuse to participate in their ideological claptrap, and I will not use their jargon, because it perpetuates falsehoods. If that results in me being a labelled a "dick", then so be it. Its a badge I will wear with honour and pride (no pun intended).

Of course, some will label me as a right-winger. I am not. As anyone who knows me, and anyone who knows my body of work on this and other fora, I am very much centre-left in my political ideology. That does not mean, however, that I will simply fall in step and parrot the liberal mindset on everything.

 

[Samson]

A New Zealand teacher describes:

“I have found it incredibly stressful to have a student in my Y10 class who is no longer to be seen as female but is to be seen as male and as such has changed the name to J***. Trying not to misgender the student both on a day to day basis but also on Parent/Teacher interviews which took place last term, I try to use the student’s name to avoid the whole pronoun ‘thing’. I teach secondary English so cannot use the plural pronoun as it goes against my professional standards and everything I teach my students… Every time this child is in front of me the word ‘he’ is constantly going through my head so I don’t say ‘she’. It is exhausting and takes over. My teaching will undoubtedly be affected and my health and mental health is affected to the detriment of me.”

The law commission is draughting legislation designed to criminalize misgendering and deadnaming.
This teacher must practice hard meantime.

 

[Hercules56]

I disagree.

Transwomen are biologically male. This is an irrefutable, undeniable scientific fact. If you refer to a transwoman as "she" then you are acknowledging their spurious claim to be female, and in so doing, are denying an irrefutable, undeniable scientific fact.

Now, some people will call me transphobic for this. I am not. I not only have no fear of trans-people and do not feel at all threatened by them, but I regard them as ordinary people who simply have a different view of their own sexuality from other people, and in that aspect, no different from gays or lesbians, celibates or nymphomaniacs, those who support the rights of people to be sex workers, and those who don't. They (should) have the right to love whoever they want, live wherever they wish and associate with whoever they choose. They are a part of our communities.

However, those rights must never be allowed to abrogate the rights of others. Allowing biological males to use female toilets, to be incarcerated in female prisons, and to participate in female sports not only abrogates the rights of females, it endangers them both personally and physically. Calling a male "he/him" and calling a female "she/her" is NOT transphobic, but it is the thin end of the wedge, the first step in forcing society to accede to the demands of trans-radical activists. Well, I refuse to participate in their ideological claptrap, and I will not use their jargon, because it perpetuates falsehoods. If that results in me being a labelled a "dick", then so be it. Its a badge I will wear with honour and pride (no pun intended).

Of course, some will label me as a right-winger. I am not. As anyone who knows me, and anyone who knows my body of work on this and other fora, I am very much centre-left in my political ideology. That does not mean, however, that I will simply fall in step and parrot the liberal mindset on everything.

Quick question: do you believe someone should be allowed to refer to a homosexual person as a "Sodomite"? That literally used to be the legal term for people who engage in anal sex.

 

[novaphile]

Quick question: do you believe someone should be allowed to refer to a homosexual person as a "Sodomite"? That literally used to be the legal term for people who engage in anal sex.

Wow, sloppy language leading to sloppy thinking there.

You do understand that there are homosexual women too, right?
And that anal sex can be a feature of hetrosexual relationships?
And that anal sex is not necessarily a part of gay relationships?

 

[jt512]

The argument for it not being the same is that pronouns refer to an essential biological fact, which is either female or male and asking someone to use a preferred pronoun which is not one that in English has traditionally been used for biological sex identification is to ask others to state a lie.

Are you saying, then, that pronouns refer to biological sex rather than gender?

 

[theprestige]

Quick question: do you believe someone should be allowed to refer to a homosexual person as a "Sodomite"? That literally used to be the legal term for people who engage in anal sex.

Rude namecalling is generally permitted as free speech.

 

[arthwollipot]

Not allowing transgender men in women's sports or dressing rooms? Yes, I'm behind that, because it involves others (biological women) who are losing something real and tangible over what is, in the end, a personal issue about identity.

I know a number of trans women who have been using women's bathrooms for some time, and by their reports I can count the number of times a woman has had a problem with that on one hand. With no fingers. The number is zero.

Yes, this is anecdotal, but it is consistent.

 

[arthwollipot]

Man/woman on the other hand is a FACT. We're being asked to deny reality.

How do you know what's between someone's legs?

 

[Thermal]

How do you know what's between someone's legs?

I don't believe Ron mentioned what was between anyone's legs. When I identify someone's sex visually (with something like 99% accuracy), I don't look at their crotch either

 

[arthwollipot]

Rude namecalling is generally permitted as free speech.

As is calling you a **** for doing it.

 

[arthwollipot]

I don't believe Ron mentioned what was between anyone's legs. When I identify someone's sex visually (with something like 99% accuracy), I don't look at their crotch either

Then how do you know?

As has been pointed out, there are women with beards. I myself sport a rather impressive pair of manboobs. When you can't rely on secondary sexual characteristics to make a positive identification, what do you do?

And why do you need to make a positive identification anyway?

Me, I'll call them what they want me to, because I'm polite and respectful of their wishes.

 

[Orphia Nay]

If I were at work, I would act in accordance with my employer's policy, because that's part of the job. I do not have freedom of speech when I am on the clock.

Students are not in general employees. They retain freedom of speech rights. So I don't know why you think this scenario is relevant.

Is bullying or harrassment a crime?