"Misgendering" is now a federal offense

[Hercules56]

Really? You got a source for that? I'm not seeing that in the OP. It seems like no biological males had input and this came from an all female college. I'm sure you're not just making **** up out of nowhere though so I'll patiently wait for your link to a biological male complaining, and that triggering this action. Thanks in advance.

You may not know, but there has been an issue in the world over the last decade or so about transgender people demanding to be labeled using female pronouns, and these demands have reached the level of legislation. And official college conduct policies.

Where have you been the last 10 years?

 

[plague311]

There seems to be a common misunderstanding in this thread. This policy effects every college in the US that accepts any federal money, which to my knowledge means there is one college in the US that is not impacted by this.

So, good luck finding another school to go to if you don't want to be reported for getting someone's pronoun wrong or mocking the schools policy.

As I understand it, only a few schools have taken the step of extending their interpretation of Title IX obligations to include dissenting speech on this particular topic.

I believe theprestige is correct. Title IX effects all campuses but this specific policy does not.

 

[plague311]

You may not know, but there has been an issue in the world over the last decade or so about transgender people demanding to be labeled using female pronouns, and these demands have reached the level of legislation. And official college conduct policies.

Where have you been the last 10 years?

So, no? You can't support your statement at all? Thank you.

 

[Hercules56]

So, no? You can't support your statement at all? Thank you.

You're joking right?

This whole topic has nothing to do with transgender people wanting to be identified by pronouns that adhere to their gender identity and not their biology??? And those people being highly offended and disrespected if their demands are not met?

Of course it does. You're just playing silly games.

 

[Hercules56]

Really? You got a source for that? I'm not seeing that in the OP. It seems like no biological males had input and this came from an all female college. I'm sure you're not just making **** up out of nowhere though so I'll patiently wait for your link to a biological male complaining, and that triggering this action. Thanks in advance.

So if an all-female college in the USA refuses to accept transgender students they are now in violation of Title IX?

I think if my daughter went to an all-female school and when she was at the locker room she saw a penis she would probably be very annoyed.

 

[ahhell]

As I understand it, only a few schools have taken the step of extending their interpretation of Title IX obligations to include dissenting speech on this particular topic.

I believe theprestige is correct. Title IX effects all campuses but this specific policy does not.

Edit, nevermind, I was wrong. This isn't official policy from the Department of ED its just one person's interpretation of a Federal policy.

I retract most of my criticism except the bit about mocking the policy, that's still some BS.

ETA: Makes me want to enroll there and then mock them.

 

[theprestige]

Edit, nevermind, I was wrong. This isn't official policy from the Department of ED its just one person's interpretation of a Federal policy.

It's one school's interpretation of a federal policy. If it were just one person, without authority to enforce their interpretation, I wouldn't care.

 

[Thermal]

It's one school's interpretation of a federal policy. If it were just one person, without authority to enforce their interpretation, I wouldn't care.

It's one schools policy, claiming it is based on their interpretation of Title IX. Still no actual penalty or even threat of one spelled out, just "let us know if anyone sounds harassing".

 

[theprestige]

It's one schools policy, claiming it is based on their interpretation of Title IX. Still no actual penalty or even threat of one spelled out, just "let us know if anyone sounds harassing".

"We're not saying we're going to have investigations, suspensions, and show trials. We're just saying."

 

[bruto]

As I understand it, only a few schools have taken the step of extending their interpretation of Title IX obligations to include dissenting speech on this particular topic.

And if I read the original document here, those few do not include the school under discussion here. You are equating open mockery with dissent. I am a bit surprised that you consider those to be the same, and suspect that you might not in other contexts, but that's peripheral. I do not consider them the same, and I suspect that the college does not either.

 

[Donal]

Violation of civil rights. The 1st Amendment.

Alabaster brocoli. Chewed lycra.

Random words don't really make a very good argument. Who is being discriminated against?

 

[Thermal]

"We're not saying we're going to have investigations, suspensions, and show trials. We're just saying."

Or maybe just a simple "hey Xir, we're getting a lot of complaints about you refusing to call xirfs "Xir"."

Eta: I originally started that with "hey man", but assumed that would be off-message.

 

[Ziggurat]

There seems to be a common misunderstanding in this thread. This policy effects every college in the US that accepts any federal money

The DOE Title IX regulations affects a lot of colleges. But the colleges themselves still draft their own policies in order to try to comply with those regulations, the DOE doesn't directly dictate those policies, and the quote from the OP was a college-specific policy, it was NOT the regulations themselves.

So, good luck finding another school to go to if you don't want to be reported for getting someone's pronoun wrong or mocking the schools policy.

College policies to comply with Title IX regulations are not uniform. And the new Title IX regulations do not prohibit mocking school policy. They are, in fact, entirely silent upon the issue of mocking school policy, because Title IX has nothing to do with protecting school policy. The school came up with that bit entirely on their own.

And the new Title IX regulations don't even prohibit using the wrong pronouns. They basically try to skirt around the issue. Seriously, read them yourself.
https://public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2024-07915.pdf

Do a search for "pronoun" and you'll find the word only comes up twice in the entire 1,395 page document. The first was in regards to misgendering, and only uses the word in reference to public comments the DEO received. The second was also in reference to public comments, but this time in regards to schools using pronouns for minors without the knowledge or consent of parents, which isn't what we're talking about in this thread. You can search the document for the word and read what the DOE has to say in the discussion section following, but this quote (page 148) should give you some sense:

Many commenters, as highlighted above, believe that misgendering is one form of sexbased harassment. As discussed throughout this preamble, whether verbal conduct constitutes sex-based harassment is necessarily fact-specific. While the final regulations do not purport to identify all of the circumstances that could constitute sex-based harassment under Title IX, a stray remark, such as a misuse of language, would not constitute harassment under this standard.

tl;dr: you probably can find a college with more relaxed policies about pronoun usage than Mount Holyoke

 

[Donal]

Don't forget this whole issue is about biological males getting butthurt over being called "he/him/sir".

No, it started with a bunch of frightened smooth brains crying that they were asked not to ******** for a few hours a day.

 

[Hercules56]

No, it started with a bunch of frightened smooth brains crying that they were asked not to ******** for a few hours a day.

Yet its the other guys pushing for new laws to be written, so that their feelings won't get all hurt and stuff. Cuz being recognized for your biological sex is soooo hurtful.

 

[Donal]

LOL, the book burners crying about a school adding an update to their policy.

 

[Donal]

You may not know, but there has been an issue in the world over the last decade or so about transgender people demanding to be labeled using female pronouns, and these demands have reached the level of legislation. And official college conduct policies.

Where have you been the last 10 years?

Wait...you think transgender people just appeared 10 years ago?

 

[theprestige]

And if I read the original document here, those few do not include the school under discussion here. You are equating open mockery with dissent. I am a bit surprised that you consider those to be the same, and suspect that you might not in other contexts, but that's peripheral. I do not consider them the same, and I suspect that the college does not either.

I absolutely do consider mockery to be a legitimate form of dissent. It's the operating principle of all political cartoons, all political satire.

Making a mockery of someone's position is not one but two of Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals. And the tactic is not unique to them, but used extensively by factions of all stripes and credos.

Yeah, I think open mockery is a form of dissent, and one that is protected by the right to free speech.

I think problematizing mockery of policy strays dangerously close to lese majeste territory. And I'm pretty sure it is a behavior of tyrants, to criminalize lese majeste, and then expand the definition to make criminals of anyone whose dissent pains them overmuch.

If I say that I think a policy is stupid and wrong, I shouldn't have to worry about a sociopolitical wooster reporting me to the administration for mocking the policy, and then suffer through the administration's review of the allegation, even if the outcome is ultimately in my favor. After the suspension, loss of privileges, or other hardships I endured during the course of the investigation.

We have no idea where the college will draw the line. The fact that they have indicated that there is a line is already bad enough, in my opinion. There should be no line. The proper response to "he's mocking the policy" is "yes, that's allowed, stop wasting our time."

---

Or are we talking about Rule for Radicals number four, "Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules"? That kind of mockery?

If I, dissenting from the policy, seek to demonstrate its bankruptcy by insisting on different neopronouns every week and reporting any student or staff that objects, am I making a mockery of the policy in a way that is different from expressing dissent from the policy? Or am I doing exactly what the policy says I'm entitled to do and should do?

 

[plague311]

You're joking right?

This whole topic has nothing to do with transgender people wanting to be identified by pronouns that adhere to their gender identity and not their biology??? And those people being highly offended and disrespected if their demands are not met?

Of course it does. You're just playing silly games.

Speaking of silly games, so now you're implying that ALL of transgenderism and pronouns started with one biological male complaining about it? Wow, I'm REALLY going to need a source for that.

The pathetic part is it bothers you people so much that you're making a big deal out of it. Why do you ******* care? What does it even matter to just call someone what they want to be called? What is it that just really, really triggers you about someone who identifies as a woman wanting to be called by that? I read your guys' posts, and I can't figure it out. I can't imagine being petty enough to let it even register on my radar.

 

[Hercules56]

Speaking of silly games, so now you're implying that ALL of transgenderism and pronouns started with one biological male complaining about it? Wow, I'm REALLY going to need a source for that.

The pathetic part is it bothers you people so much that you're making a big deal out of it. Why do you ******* care? What does it even matter to just call someone what they want to be called? What is it that just really, really triggers you about someone who identifies as a woman wanting to be called by that? I read your guys' posts, and I can't figure it out. I can't imagine being petty enough to let it even register on my radar.

They are the ones calling for laws to make it illegal to call someone by the "wrong" pronoun, and I am the one who is being triggered?

The real question is, since YOU'RE the one who supports these violations of Free Speech, why do YOU care soo much?

Why are you ok with people being punished, fined, kicked out school, fired from their job, just because they identify someone based on the sex listed on their birth certificate or the name on their Social Security card??

Why do YOU care so damn much?