Cont: Luton Airport Car Park Fire IV

[W.D.Clinger]

Armchair detectives are obsessed not with getting the right answer, but instead with being thought clever.

To refine that a bit...

Armchair detectives are obsessed not with being thought clever by informed observers, aka sheeple, but by thinking themselves to be clever, because their opinion is the only one that matters.

 

[Vixen]

I suppose a firm that has already gone into liquidation is unlikely to sue you, but if we imagine for a moment that they did, would you be in any position to say in what way their building failed to meet or exceed its design specification?

The people who had their cars destroyed could in theory add their names to the list of creditors.

 

[Vixen]

What exactly does the issue of dodgy builders have to do with Rishi Sunak, his wife and his father in law and and their supposed investments in Tata Motors and the whatever point you're trying to get at?

I want to understand why the fire as seen in the video/s looks like a lithium-ion one. I also want to know what make model and year the vehicle was as a taxpayer entitled to be given this information and which is in the public interest.

It is a well-known fact Rishi Sunak has all kinds of profit-making schemes. The latest allegation is that he breached US securities regulations by failing to declare sophisticated CSX Swaps as financial derivatives when buying more than 5% of stocks. This is a politician who does not declared his financial interests until he is made to. The potential conflict of interest in Tata is very clear to me. I'd be shocked if Sunak or his family had no financial interest in it.

 

[Vixen]

I've resisted this since the ridiculous accusation was initially made. The car park was built to spec and would not have been signed off if it failed to meet said specifications. To suggest it was thrown together willy-nilly, ignoring the architect's plans and then blindly paid for is painfully stupid, to say the least.

It appears to have been left unfinished, as the water pipes have been installed but no sprinklers fitted. This looks like work in progress for what else are the water pipes for?

 

[Vixen]

I think you dropped an adjective, Jay. No sort of electric vehicle, right?

"As of this time".

 

[Vixen]

********. That's all ********.

First of all, I was referencing your completely unsupported claims that at least one of the videos we've seen was a "deep fake" intended to blame the source of the fire on a diesel Range Rover in order to protect Sunak's investments in Tata EV manufacturing. But Range Rover is now owned by Tata Motors, making your conspiracy theory downright laughable. And the thing is, you knew that was my point. But you think you can gaslight your way out of the flaming wreckage of that dumb conspiracy theory.

Second, your inability to see a valid reason regarding any of this is irrelevant, because you have zero experience or authority regarding this matter. Even your use of the word "withhold" is deliberately meant to imply obfuscation or deception. The simple fact is that the official incident report has yet to be released. I expect we'll see a food deal of previously unreleased information in the final report.

Third, you have so far failed to prove that it is standard procedure to identify the year, make and model of any vehicle involved in an accident. You tried to establish this by referencing a single news report, but failed to mention (or failed to read far enough to discover) that the driver of the described vehicle had fled the scene of the accident and was being sought by the police.

It is standard to supply the vehicle type.

For example, within the last few days:

The inquest heard after the crash, the four people in the Audi came across the smoking wreckage of the BMW.

BBC

Two cars were involved in the collision – a black Jaguar and a black Ford Fiesta.

SUN

What is so special about Jaguar Land Rover that we can't be told? I shouldn't be surprised if the report doesn't reveal this, either.

 

[Andy_Ross]

It appears to have been left unfinished, as the water pipes have been installed but no sprinklers fitted. This looks like work in progress for what else are the water pipes for?

Which water pipes do you mean?

 

[Vixen]

I'm puzzled why you and others are saying this. The fire service has confirmed that they know the make, model, and year of the initial vehicle. As far as I know, no one has ever seriously contested that they did. The fire service confirm that they will not presently publish that information, citing exemptions to the FOI laws and alluding to the factors that motivate those exemptions. This is what I understand to be the contended point. Vixen argued that the only reason for not publishing the vehicle details was to protect Sunak's business interests in electric vehicles. The fire service has provided a different reason. The conspiracy theory as I understood it was about why the details were withheld, not that they were.

The only plausible reason I can think for the withholding of the information is the fear of Jaguar Land Rover fearing it might be sued by angry motorists whose vehicles were destroyed, leaving them with increased insurance quotes, rubbish redemption compensation* and other inconveniences, together with other owners of the same vehicle demanding a replacement in case their vehicle has the same fault that caused the fire.

I am of the opinion that had it been, say, a Toyota Yaris or Vauxhall Corsa that caused the fire, there would be no problem in publishing it.

*Some of the owners affected are saying that their insurers are claiming the damage to their car was the owner's fault.

 

[Steve]

It appears to have been left unfinished, as the water pipes have been installed but no sprinklers fitted. This looks like work in progress for what else are the water pipes for?

"Appears" to whom? "Looks like" to whom?

It was common in parking garages we designed to include a basic water system to provide water for washdown/cleanup purposes. Nothing to do with fire suppression sprinklers, that were frequently not a code requirement.

 

[Vixen]

Which water pipes do you mean?

The ones installed.

 

[Steve]

The ones installed.

Were these installed water pipes, assuming they exist - no actual evidence provided, designed and installed to provide fire sprinkler coverage? Or to provide water for maintenance washdown? Or to provide standpipes, wet or dry, for fire department hose connections?

 

[Vixen]

"Appears" to whom? "Looks like" to whom?

It was common in parking garages we designed to include a basic water system to provide water for washdown/cleanup purposes. Nothing to do with fire suppression sprinklers, that were frequently not a code requirement.

I can't find the source ATM.

I feel sure that it will soon become mandatory for all new public car parking garages beyond a certain size to have an effective sprinkler system installed.

The Fire Brigade Union is a key advocate and this time, perhaps it will be listened to.

 

[Mojo]

I want to understand why the fire as seen in the video/s looks like a lithium-ion one.

You're begging the question again.

 

[Mojo]

The only plausible reason I can think for the withholding of the information is the fear of Jaguar Land Rover fearing it might be sued by angry motorists whose vehicles were destroyed, leaving them with increased insurance quotes, rubbish redemption compensation* and other inconveniences, together with other owners of the same vehicle demanding a replacement in case their vehicle has the same fault that caused the fire.

Why would Bedfordshire Fire and Rescue be afraid of that?

 

[Craig4]

The only plausible reason I can think for the withholding of the information is the fear of Jaguar Land Rover fearing it might be sued by angry motorists whose vehicles were destroyed, leaving them with increased insurance quotes, rubbish redemption compensation* and other inconveniences, together with other owners of the same vehicle demanding a replacement in case their vehicle has the same fault that caused the fire.

I am of the opinion that had it been, say, a Toyota Yaris or Vauxhall Corsa that caused the fire, there would be no problem in publishing it.

*Some of the owners affected are saying that their insurers are claiming the damage to their car was the owner's fault.

Your goalposts need to drop out of warp.

 

[Andy_Ross]

The ones installed.

Which ones though?

Can you show me the pipes?

How do you know they were for sprinklers and not dry risers or fire mains?

 

[Andy_Ross]

The only plausible reason I can think for the withholding of the information is the fear of Jaguar Land Rover fearing it might be sued by angry motorists whose vehicles were destroyed, leaving them with increased insurance quotes, rubbish redemption compensation* and other inconveniences, together with other owners of the same vehicle demanding a replacement in case their vehicle has the same fault that caused the fire.

I am of the opinion that had it been, say, a Toyota Yaris or Vauxhall Corsa that caused the fire, there would be no problem in publishing it.

*Some of the owners affected are saying that their insurers are claiming the damage to their car was the owner's fault.

Why would Jaguar Land Rover be sued for cars destroyed in a parking garage fire?

Why would anyone be sued by the car owners as they were insured and would get paid out?

Why would it have anything to do with the fire service?

 

[Vixen]

Why would Bedfordshire Fire and Rescue be afraid of that?

As they said they have to be mindful not to prejudice the investigations of the other agencies involved. A video put out by a member of public is not seen by them as being official or officially confirmed. This is because they want to come to their own conclusions. As I suggested, there may be some kind of D-notice on the information. The Fire Brigade is a public body accountable to government ministers.

 

[Andy_Ross]

I can't find the source ATM.

Well there's a surprise!

 

[GlennB]

As they said they have to be mindful not to prejudice the investigations of the other agencies involved. A video put out by a member of public is not seen by them as being official or officially confirmed. This is because they want to come to their own conclusions. As I suggested, there may be some kind of D-notice on the information. The Fire Brigade is a public body accountable to government ministers.

Rubbish. D-notices relate to national security, as you have been told multiple times before. Do you ever read the replies to your posts?