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U.S. Border and Immigration

Norman Alexander said:
How do you do that if there is no means to do that?
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This is just plain wrong. There IS a means to do it. You go to an official border, you present yourself to the immigration officers at that legal border crossing, and you ******* APPLY for asylum! That's how it's supposed to be done, that's the existing and very reasonable policy.

Why are you pretending like there's no possible way for someone to seek refuge in the US without illegally breaking into the country without authorization?
 
Norman Alexander said:
That was my point - the circumstances can differ hugely in each case.

Note that I'm not making value judgements, or suggesting there should be any, on the worth of any immigrant to the USA, regardless of how they arrived. Just that some educated refugee potentially capable of contribution may arrive as a wetback on the Rio Grande and beg for asylum, while some utterly worthless drug cartel criminal may fly in on a tourist visa. You just can't tell...

Also, the USA is hardly alone in this situation. All of Europe and the UK, and Australia, all have border control issues to deal with, many similar to the USA.
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See, here's where border control and customs comes into play. If we KNOW that they're a worthless drug cartel criminal we DON'T let them in at the airport.
 
Emily's Cat said:
In your opinion, is theft of company goods by an employee totally the same as theft from a non-employee that breaks into the company? Is domestic violence indistinguishable from a home invasion battery?
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Of course not. But they are not entirely unrelated either.

My objection is the "worst actors" individual anecdotes that we are supposed to draw a sweeping conclusion about presidential administrations and policy effectiveness from.
 
Thermal said:
Of course not. But they are not entirely unrelated either.

My objection is the "worst actors" individual anecdotes that we are supposed to draw a sweeping conclusion about presidential administrations and policy effectiveness from.
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Meh. Most discussions are invariably partisan posturing these days.
 
Jocelyn Nungaray, a 12-year-old girl from Houston, Texas was found raped, strangled and face down in a stream.

2 illegal aliens from Venezuela, 21 years old and 26 years old, have been arrested.

One entered illegally in March, the other entered illegally in May, both were detained and released by Biden's Border Patrol. At least 1 of them applied for asylum.

Give me your tired, your poor, your raping and murdering masses just like the Jews during the Holocaust… or something.

Biden/Harris 2024!
 
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My wife is working with a Honduran first grader in the school where she works. Seems the father and older brothers of the young girl are no longer with us. She hasn't done anything to get in the headlines but is working hard to have her English functional.

**** her, amirite?
 
Thermal said:
My wife is working with a Honduran first grader in the school where she works. Seems the father and older brothers of the young girl are no longer with us. She hasn't done anything to get in the headlines but is working hard to have her English functional.

**** her, amirite?
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Hopefully she's not raped and murdered by illegal aliens, then she will also disappear in the eyes of America's Left.
 
Emily's Cat said:
What do you think Open Borders means, and why do you favor it?
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I think Open Borders means exactly that: allowing people to cross freely between borders. It doesn't mean everyone becomes a citizen of every country, but it would mean being able to travel to and work in those places. I favor the free trade of labor for the same reason I'm in favor of free trade in goods.

Or, that's my first order view. I start from there and then notice that there are legitimate reasons to alter that policy to some extent. So, for instance, a policy of keeping out violent criminals seems net good to me and I would continue support that. In effect I'm probably in favor of "Almost Open Borders" or "Mostly Open Borders", but anyway I think they should be much more open than they are today.

I also think there are plausible reason that this sort of policy could fail, so I wouldn't favor an immediate massive change, instead I'd like to see incremental change plus monitoring of the effects of that change. First start with more high skilled immigration. If that goes well, then increase it more, etc. "If that goes well" is probably hard to define, but I think it's possible and actually more government programs should include a way to measure their effectiveness over time, with their continuance or expansion dependent upon those measures.

Do you favor this for all other countries on the globe as well?
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Yeah, I pretty much favor it for everyone, though local circumstances can make the best policies in some place different from those in others. I think Israel is a special case, for instance.

Anyway, I'm not here to try to convince anyone that Open Borders is a good idea. I only mentioned it because I was remarking in opposition to the comments someone made in favor of immigration and thought it was worth pointing out that my remarks weren't based on an ideological opposition but just because I think he's wrong on a narrow point.
 
Trump pledges green cards for college grads, reviving a Hillary Clinton idea
“You’d turn colleges into visa mills,” one advocate of restricting immigration said.


By Isaac Arnsdorf
June 20, 2024 at 10:38 p.m. EDT

Presumptive Republican nominee Donald Trump said foreign-born college graduates should automatically be authorized to stay and work in the United States — a position once championed by former rival Hillary Clinton and at odds with his usually restrictive stance on immigration.

“What I wanted to do, and what I will do is, you graduate from a college, I think you should get automatically as part of your diploma a green card to be able to stay in this country,” Trump said in an interview on a podcast titled “All-In” released today. A green card is the colloquial term for legal permanent residency.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/06/20/trump-green-card-college-immigration/

The fat felon wants to give green cards to foreign college grads. Talk about open borders
 
Emily's Cat said:
See, here's where border control and customs comes into play. If we KNOW that they're a worthless drug cartel criminal we DON'T let them in at the airport.
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Yep, that's exactly what they are going to put on their immigration card, aren't they. :rolleyes: Pick them up right there, not years later when they have been pretending to be a warehouse forklift driver but quietly shifting tons of drugs in cartons.

Whereas some poor mother with two little kids fleeing a war-torn country is CERTAIN to be a drug mule. Why? Because they are brown Hispanics.

Do you even know how border control works??
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears to me that Bogative is using the phrase 'open border' to mean what should actually be 'porous border'. Am I right? An open border is one without passport & visa checks, like the internal EU borders. That's not what the US has got. The southern border isn't open, it's just so long and with so many remote areas, that it's difficult to police it. Again, is this correct?
 
Cosmic Yak said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears to me that Bogative is using the phrase 'open border' to mean what should actually be 'porous border'. Am I right? An open border is one without passport & visa checks, like the internal EU borders. That's not what the US has got. The southern border isn't open, it's just so long and with so many remote areas, that it's difficult to police it. Again, is this correct?
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That's my understanding as well.
 
Cosmic Yak said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears to me that Bogative is using the phrase 'open border' to mean what should actually be 'porous border'. Am I right? An open border is one without passport & visa checks, like the internal EU borders. That's not what the US has got. The southern border isn't open, it's just so long and with so many remote areas, that it's difficult to police it. Again, is this correct?
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Roboramma said:
That's my understanding as well.
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Maybe...

What's the count of uncontrolled border crossings per day versus people going through all the official checkpoints and seeking asylum or crossing but immediately surrendering to border authorities?
 
During a speech to Christian conservatives on Saturday, Trump claimed that he told his friend Dana White, president of the Ultimate Fighting Championship, that he should start a spinoff competition featuring migrants, as part of his riff on restricting immigration.

“Did anyone ever hear of Dana White,” Trump asked during his speech at the Faith and Freedom Coalition’s “Road to Majority” conference in Washington. “ … I said, ‘Dana, I have an idea. Why don’t you set up a migrant league of fighters and have your regular league of fighters, and then you have the champion of your league — these are the greatest fighters in the world — fight the champion of the migrants.’ I think the migrant guy might win, that’s how tough they are. He didn’t like that idea too much.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/06/22/trump-christians-migrants-violence/
 
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