Cont: Luton Airport Car Park Fire IV

[Roger Ramjets]

So you reckon you see 'a zebra'. But suppose London Zoo webpage carries the legend, 'This is a lion.'

Do you accept what you see is a lion unquestioningly because you are 'not a zoologist'...?

This is a zebra

With some of the most famously patterned coats in the world, no two zebras ever have the same stripe pattern, and Chapman's zebras have faint brown stripes between their black stripes.

According to the London Zoo webpage, this is a lion.

But is it?

"Oh look, a black stripe with brown around it. Must be a Zebra!" - Vixen

 

[junkshop]

Satire is not satire if one has to explain it.

I agree.

Now, would you care to address any of the points raised in my posts?

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Vixen, I'm still waiting on an answer to my yes or no question.

 

[Vixen]

At this point I'm wondering whether we can distinguish between you genuinely not comprehending my critique of your analogy, or you deliberately misrepresenting it because you don't want to address it.

Stop telling us it's a Li-ion battery fire and show us. The criteria you've established for supporting that conclusion, such as magenta flames and highly directional, jet-like flames, are conspicuously absent in the video that, until only recently, you dismissed as a "deep fake" based on erroneous assumptions.

I note that in your earlier, longwinded, response you evaded answering a straightforward question to which the straightforward answer was, 'I see a zebra, so no, I question it is a lion'.

Look at the following:

front by Username Vixen, on Flickr

and

back by Username Vixen, on Flickr

Source: unattributed uploads.

You claimed that the flames beneath the vehicle were due to leaked diesel fluid/other such fluids.

Please indicate exactly where on either of these photos we can see spilled fluid on the ground, given the car had just been driven in? Where is the leaked diesel trail if that is a diesel fire beneath the car?

Please use a highlighter to show us where exactly this spillage is.

 

[Vixen]

And while you're at it, could you provide some actual, statistically valid data proving that the lack of make and model in the official statement is anomalous?

In the last day alone:

A woman, 23, and a 68-year-old man have tragically died in the smash involving a Citroen C3 Picasso and a Volkswagen Transporter.

SUN

The collision, which took place just after 12.30pm, involved a blue Yamaha motorcycle and a grey Volvo XC90.

Bridport News

What is so special about Luton Airport fire that we can't be told?

 

[Vixen]

Suppose instead London Zoo said it was believed to be a Plains Zebra, subject to confirmation, but some blowhard on X reckoned it was a Grévy's zebra, and they should know because their brother in law used to own a pet shop.

When London zoo later confirmed it was indeed a plains zebra and neither a mountain zebra nor a Grévy's zebra, are you going with the experts or 'waiting for the full report'?

Well, we would just compare the two pictures.

Conclusion: 'You ain't no Grévy's, Bro'.

luton airport car by Username Vixen, on Flickr

 

[Vixen]

To bring this back to something near the circumstances of this thread, suppose someone said that it was a lion*, and stated that their status as a UK taxpayer qualified them to say this.

Would you accept unquestioningly that it is a lion?


*Or even a "Li-ion".

If such a dangerous wild animal were on the prowl, then as a taxpayer, you have every right to be informed what that animal is.

 

[Vixen]

This is a zebra
[qimg]https://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1476&pictureid=14043[/qimg]




According to the London Zoo webpage, this is a lion.
[qimg]https://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1476&pictureid=14044[/qimg]
But is it?

"Oh look, a black stripe with brown around it. Must be a Zebra!" - Vixen

Real cute.

this is a l-ion fire:



this is a diesel car fire:




Grok yet?

 

[Mojo]

If such a dangerous wild animal were on the prowl, then as a taxpayer, you have every right to be informed what that animal is.

Back to reality: your claim that something about the fire is particularly dangerous is unsubstantiated. There is no "dangerous wild animal ... on the prowl".

And what does all this have to do with your claim that being a UK taxpayer qualifies you to identify the nature of a fire from photographs?

 

[Mojo]

Real cute.

this is a l-ion fire:



this is a diesel car fire:




Grok yet?

"The vehicle involved was diesel-powered – it was not a mild hybrid, plug-in hybrid or electric vehicle."

Grok yet?

 

[Mojo]

luton airport car by Username Vixen, on Flickr

Has this vitally important piece of evidence been submitted to the Bedfordshire Police and Bedfordshire Fire and Rescue Service investigation team?

 

[Thermal]

Real cute.

this is a l-ion fire:

this is a diesel car fire:

Grok yet?

Vixen, back in the day I was on a Rescue Squad. Saw quite a few burning cars. I can assure you they do not all look the same when burning, especially early on. In fact, they ran the spectrum, from flames gently cooking from below like a barbecue to a high pressure flame thrower shooting out from.underneath and up the door (the latter believed to be caused by a pinhole leak in the fuel tank which ignited in almost a perfect spray to mix with air and propel outward with under pressure). If the leak was spraying upward, you also wouldn't expect to see a trail of fuel; it would be going upwards and burning, not dripping harmlessly on the ground in a neat path that is easy to see in a smoky picture. Fuels can be barely visible on gray concrete because they are not, you know... jet black and opaque.

 

[JayUtah]

I note that in your earlier, longwinded, response...

The thorough response you're dismissing as "long-winded" identified your failed attempt to foist yet another begged question: whether all evidentiary determinations require equivalent skill and experience.

...you evaded answering a straightforward question to which the straightforward answer was, 'I see a zebra, so no, I question it is a lion'.

All questions are "straightforward" if you ignore the hard parts. You never seem to have the brains to deal with the hard parts. This is why armchair detectives are worse than useless.

No, it is absolutely not straightforward to extract evidence from a photographic record.

You claimed that the flames beneath the vehicle were due to leaked diesel fluid/other such fluids.

No.

You're mistaking a rebuttal for an affirmative claim. And eviscerating yet another straw man in the process. Your claim is that the patterns you (and only you) see in the video can only come from a lithium ion battery. You are being told why that isn't the case by people who know more about cars than you do.

Please indicate exactly where on either of these photos we can see spilled fluid on the ground, given the car had just been driven in? Where is the leaked diesel trail if that is a diesel fire beneath the car?

Why are you assuming the potential fuel leak began before the fire? Do you understand that a fire that starts by other means can compromise the fuel feed system?

Gad, you are atrociously bad at this sort of thing. You should really stay in your lane.

Please use a highlighter to show us where exactly this spillage is.

Yeah, as soon as you use a highlighter to show us the "jets of flame."

 

[JayUtah]

this is a l-ion fire

That is one lithium ion fire. (The chemical symbol for lithium is Li, not whatever you used as a schoolgirl and no one allegedly cared.)

this is a diesel car fire

That is one diesel car fire.

Grok yet?

Have any actual education or experience yet?

 

[gabeygoat]

I note that in your earlier, longwinded, response you evaded answering a straightforward question to which the straightforward answer was, 'I see a zebra, so no, I question it is a lion'.

Look at the following:

[qimg]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53314085486_0165dfd981.jpg[/qimg]front by Username Vixen, on Flickr

and

[qimg]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53314330133_289228d1ff.jpg[/qimg]back by Username Vixen, on Flickr

Source: unattributed uploads.

You claimed that the flames beneath the vehicle were due to leaked diesel fluid/other such fluids.

Please indicate exactly where on either of these photos we can see spilled fluid on the ground, given the car had just been driven in? Where is the leaked diesel trail if that is a diesel fire beneath the car?

Please use a highlighter to show us where exactly this spillage is.

Seriously? Maybe we don't see any puddles of fuel because IT IS ON FIRE

 

[Foster Zygote]

I note that in your earlier, longwinded, response...

That was 245 words. I that too taxing for you? Someone with an average reading speed could read that in less than a minute. Are you trying to say that you need us to write fewer words, and maybe use shorter simpler words and sentences?

...you evaded answering a straightforward question to which the straightforward answer was, 'I see a zebra, so no, I question it is a lion'.

Your argument has fallen into such depths of stupidity that you are trying to win by playing infantile games with photographs. "See this? It's a zebra, right? Well I declare that the car fire is as obviously a Li-ion fire as that African equine [sorry, simpler words?] is a zebra, despite having offered no evidence (or even knowledge of what evidence would be) that it is. Therefore I win because you agreed with the completely unrelated fact that I showed a picture of a zebra!!! I WIN!!!".

And you still haven't explained what the lithium fire demonstration has to do with the Luton images, or pointed out the "highly directional, jet-like flames".

Your argument is stupid and desperate. You're trying to make the noises that you associate with rational arguments, but you're really just trying to work backward from an a priori conclusion to any "evidence" you can cobble together to support it, because you want your conclusion to be something that everyone is going to stick to the refrigerator with a banana magnet and brag to the neighbors about how clever you are.

You claimed that the flames beneath the vehicle were due to leaked diesel fluid/other such fluids.

Please indicate exactly where on either of these photos we can see spilled fluid on the ground, given the car had just been driven in? Where is the leaked diesel trail if that is a diesel fire beneath the car?
Please use a highlighter to show us where exactly this spillage is.

So you, in your expertise at photo analysis gained through your payment of UK taxes, in conjunction with your expertise in automotive accident investigation gained through having listened to a sales pitch from the guy who sold you your car, are now telling us that it's impossible for flammable fluids (there are several flammable fluids in automobiles, not just diesel/gasoline) to have leaked out of the burning car after it was parked?

You still, in your Dunning-Kruger fueled imagination, expect to be able to use what little information you have to create a detailed reconstruction of the precise chain of events that led up to those two images we have. But this is only because of your utter ignorance of how cars even work, which blinds you to the many variables involved.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Real cute.

this is a l-ion fire:

No, that's a cartoon illustration of a Li-ion fire. Are you seriously presenting that as visual evidence of a Li-ion fire? Don't you realize how funny that is?

this is a diesel car fire:




Grok yet?

I think we can all grok how much that video supports the official fire service statement, and contradicts many of your previous claims. We see the car shortly after it has caught fire, and within a minute of the start of the video, it is consumed in flames. Within two minutes it has started a nearby parked car on fire. We also see two fire extinguishers being used to no effect.

So much for your claims that the fire service should have been able to extinguish a benign, little old diesel fire after just a few minutes, and that it couldn't have set fire to nearby cars.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Real cute.

this is a l-ion fire:



this is a diesel car fire:




Grok yet?

The fire service have stated that it was a diesel car. Not an EV or Hybrid.

 

[phiwum]

So you reckon you see 'a zebra'. But suppose London Zoo webpage carries the legend, 'This is a lion.'

Do you accept what you see is a lion unquestioningly because you are 'not a zoologist'...?

If the zoo were to say that, I'd think that they'd deliberately made a false statement. I'd probably think they were lying.

So, given that you are so confident that the flames could only come from a lithium battery, is the fire department making false statements in an official capacity?

 

[phiwum]

I note that in your earlier, longwinded, response you evaded answering a straightforward question to which the straightforward answer was, 'I see a zebra, so no, I question it is a lion'.

Look at the following:

[qimg]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53314085486_0165dfd981.jpg[/qimg]front by Username Vixen, on Flickr

and

[qimg]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53314330133_289228d1ff.jpg[/qimg]back by Username Vixen, on Flickr

Source: unattributed uploads.

You claimed that the flames beneath the vehicle were due to leaked diesel fluid/other such fluids.

Please indicate exactly where on either of these photos we can see spilled fluid on the ground, given the car had just been driven in? Where is the leaked diesel trail if that is a diesel fire beneath the car?

Please use a highlighter to show us where exactly this spillage is.

You know, you've never really said why that second video should be considered authentic. You said something about it being in portrait mode and having been "established" as authentic, but by whom? And why would portrait mode matter?