Criminal Charges Against Trump / Trump Indicted / Hush Money Part III

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If election was today, Trump would win.

People love Trump. Nobody loves Biden.

Some 20% are finding it hard to find a person to vote for. That is high. I could see the 40/40 votes going even but the remaining 20% would either need to vote (Biden wins) or all stay home for Trump to win. Among that 20% there are lots who can't stand him.
 
Some 20% are finding it hard to find a person to vote for. That is high. I could see the 40/40 votes going even but the remaining 20% would either need to vote (Biden wins) or all stay home for Trump to win. Among that 20% there are lots who can't stand him.

I learned a long time ago that polls before the last couple of months are pretty much useless.
 
Returning a verdict today or tomorrow would signal for me that it was pretty easy to find him guilty. It will take a while to address all 34 (?) counts specifically.

If Thursday evening rolls comes with no verdict, I'm getting more and more worried there is a holdout who won't budge.

I'd like to see the jury milk this until Monday, so Trump can stew in his own juices all weekend. Maybe he'll drop dead from apoplexy.
 
The jury deliberations are effectively stalled pending a ruling on the readback requests. The jury goes home while the parties argue what portions of the testimony should be read back in response to the request.
 
The jury deliberations are effectively stalled pending a ruling on the readback requests. The jury goes home while the parties argue what portions of the testimony should be read back in response to the request.

Why is that even a question? The evidence is the evidence already admitted. Why would a jury suddenly not be allowed examine it?
 
He came out and said the same old same old that he always has. I do think he looks even more like **** today. I saw one photo -- those pupils! Like dinner plates!
 
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Why is that even a question? The evidence is the evidence already admitted. Why would a jury suddenly not be allowed examine it?

Indeed, why doesn't the jury get a written copy of the judge's instructions and a full transcript of the testimony?

Short answer: it's considered prejudicial. Why it's considered prejudicial is a subject I've been trying to wring out of both the prosecutors and defense attorneys I know, with no success.

ETA: The jury can examine any evidence it wants, within the limits of the judge's instructions as to admissibility, upon request. What evidence is responsive to each particular request is apparently up for debate among the parties, and subject to the judge's decision.
 
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Indeed, why doesn't the jury get a written copy of the judge's instructions and a full transcript of the testimony?

Short answer: it's considered prejudicial. Why it's considered prejudicial is a subject I've been trying to wring out of both the prosecutors and defense attorneys I know, with no success.

The only thing I can imagine, and I am so NAL, is that getting the whole thing denies the prosecution and defense to weigh in as to what the jury gets to see in response to a more focused request. It preserves the defense and prosecution's ability to argue before the judge how the request should be answered.
 
The only thing I can imagine, and I am so NAL, is that getting the whole thing denies the prosecution and defense to weigh in as to what the jury gets to see in response to a more focused request. It preserves the defense and prosecution's ability to argue before the judge how the request should be answered.

I know the answer with respect to the jury instructions. If the jury gets a written copy of the judge's instructions (which are carefully wrangled by parties before the jury deliberation begins), the jurors will be tempted to suss out for themselves what the various parts of it mean. While the jury is the final authority on whether the defendant is guilty or not guilty according to the law, the judge remains the final authority on how the law should be read. (However, it is usually permitted to have printed copies of any relevant statutes.) It's the judge's duty to "charge" the jury correctly and correct errors in interpretation that arise. This requires those questions to be brought to the judge, often incident to a re-hearing of the relevant portions of the instruction.

When the jury has questions, and when the judge entertains them and possibly issues revisions or clarifications, all this has to happen in the presence of all parties, in the courtroom, so that the parties may object to any errors the judge may commit and thereby preserve them for appeal. I've had a case go all the way to a state supreme court based on the trial judge's error in the jury charge, so this is no laughing matter. (Except that the error in question was on the appropriate introduction of the "but for" standard for liability, and that invokes the couplet: "What's a 'but for?'" "Pooping, silly.")

I want to add that one of my most cherished old books is a pamphlet printed in 1693: The Charge Of the Right Honourable Henry, Earl of Warrington, to the Grand Jury at the Quarter Sessions Held for the County of Chester, On the 25th Day of April, 1693. It's a 28-page quarto, and indeed comprises the written instructions of His Lordship to the grand jury. This seems no longer to be commonplace.
 
I know the answer with respect to the jury instructions. If the jury gets a written copy of the judge's instructions (which are carefully wrangled by parties before the jury deliberation begins), the jurors will be tempted to suss out for themselves what the various parts of it mean. While the jury is the final authority on whether the defendant is guilty or not guilty according to the law, the judge remains the final authority on how the law should be read. (However, it is usually permitted to have printed copies of any relevant statutes.) It's the judge's duty to "charge" the jury correctly and correct errors in interpretation that arise. This requires those questions to be brought to the judge, often incident to a re-hearing of the relevant portions of the instruction.

When the jury has questions, and when the judge entertains them and possibly issues revisions or clarifications, all this has to happen in the presence of all parties, in the courtroom, so that the parties may object to any errors the judge may commit and thereby preserve them for appeal. I've had a case go all the way to a state supreme court based on the trial judge's error in the jury charge, so this is no laughing matter. (Except that the error in question was on the appropriate introduction of the "but for" standard for liability, and that invokes the couplet: "What's a 'but for?'" "Pooping, silly.")

I want to add that one of my most cherished old books is a pamphlet printed in 1693: The Charge Of the Right Honourable Henry, Earl of Warrington, to the Grand Jury at the Quarter Sessions Held for the County of Chester, On the 25th Day of April, 1693. It's a 28-page quarto, and indeed comprises the written instructions of His Lordship to the grand jury. This seems no longer to be commonplace.

My understanding is that this varies from State to State.
 
My understanding is that this varies from State to State.

It does, depending on each state's laws and what courts have subsequently ruled prejudicial. In New York, the case law says that the legislature spells out what the jury is entitled to access during deliberation, and it leaves out written jury instructions. Under the interpretational canon of expressio unius est exclusio alterius, the jury is therefore not automatically entitled to a written instruction. One may, however, be provided upon request subject to the judge's discretion and absent any objection from either party to the case.
 
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The Trumpets in their little bubbles seriously underestimate how much people hate Trump. They always whine, "There is no way there were 81 million people who like Biden that much," but they never consider, there is easily 81 million people who can't stand trump, no matter how many rallies he has with 3000 people attending.

You don't have to love or be excited about Biden to complete abhor the alternative.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:
I detest Trump more than any other politician we've had since I began voting in 1972 and that's enough 'excitement' to make sure I vote for anyone running against him.
 
Trump posted

"KANGAROO COURT! A CORRUPT AND CONFLICTED JUDGE. RELIANCE ON COUNSEL (ADVISE OF COUNSEL) NOT ALLOWED BY MERCHAN, A FIRST. HIS RULINGS, ON A CASE THAT SHOULD, ACCORDING TO ALL LEGAL SCHOLARS AND EXPERTS, NEVER HAVE BEEN BROUGHT, HAVE MADE THIS A BIDEN PUSHED WITCH HUNT. THERE WAS NO CRIME, EXCEPT FOR THE BUM THAT GOT CAUGHT STEALING FROM ME! IN GOD WE TRUST!"

You'd think a sane genius who graduated from Wharton and had an uncle who taught at MIT would know the difference between advice and advise.
 
:thumbsup::thumbsup:
I detest Trump more than any other politician we've had since I began voting in 1972 and that's enough 'excitement' to make sure I vote for anyone running against him.
I take it you hope for a guilty verdict in this disgraceful escapade purporting to be a fair trial. Be careful what you wish for by establishing fake legal precedents.
 
I take it you hope for a guilty verdict in this disgraceful escapade purporting to be a fair trial. Be careful what you wish for by establishing fake legal precedents.

You assume correctly: I believe the evidence shows BARD that Trump committed a crime. As I do not believe a POTUS is above the law, he should be held responsible for his actions.

There is no "fake legal precedent" here. What there is are cultists who prove that Trump was correct when he said he could shoot someone in the middle of 5th Ave. and not lose a vote.
 
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