Cont: Luton Airport Car Park Fire III

[phiwum]

Did you mean to say "downgraded in the uploads" here, Rev. Spooner?

Huh. That's a funny sort of spoonerism, on the level of parts of compound words. Thanks.

 

[SpitfireIX]

Huh. That's a funny sort of spoonerism, on the level of parts of compound words. Thanks.

Yeah, that struck me as pretty unusual, too. I almost wondered whether it was an extremely improbable autocorrect fail.

 

[W.D.Clinger]

Polishing a turd does not have the same meaning as gilding the lily.

At last, we have found a fragment of English Vixen understands.

At this rate of progress, it might take only a decade or so for Vixen to understand complete sentences such as

The vehicle involved was diesel-powered – it was not a mild hybrid, plug-in hybrid or electric vehicle.​

 

[JayUtah]

Polishing a turd does not have the same meaning as gilding the lily.

Who said it did?

 

[JayUtah]

The make model and year of the said vehicle obviously has been 'covered up' because it has never been confirmed.

Straw man.

 

[JayUtah]

There is a video on YouTube...

Dabop, do you have a video...

"I only accept refutations in video form from YouTube."

Aristotle called this ignoratio elenchi.

 

[JayUtah]

The only thing we are worried about here is the issue of Sunak's potential interests in (a) a foreign company (Tata in respect of Jaguar Land Rover int he UK) and (b) transparency in his business dealings, his business being hidden away in a foreign country and registered as 'blind'.

If his interest is blind, it doesn't matter where it is. You still haven't grasped the fact that blind interests are not registered.

Sunak is protecting his investment assets, and that possibly of family friend, Mr. Tata, then that becomes an issue of foreign interest coming before the interests of the UK taxpayer...

Irrelevant. You're accusing Sunak of using his office to manipulate his business interests. It doesn't matter whether those interests are domestic or foreign. The crime alleged is unjust enrichment by misuse of official power.

...who is entitled to have the information re faulty JLR vehicles that keep catching fire and whether the Range Rover involved (although this information has been withheld for no reason I can discern)...

Speculation wrapped around a straw man.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Once again, your argument uses evidence that works best AGAINST, not FOR your theory.

If you are making a video from scratch, in order to spread the rumor that it was a diesel vehicle, then you'd make it so that the license plate is readable. There's not a reason in the world you can't do this.

The license plate can't be read in the current video primarily because the person filming is too far away[1], but if it's a generated video, THERE IS NO PERSON FILMING! You just make the video as if the person filming were closer. Or you make the video with the person zooming in on the vehicle, "coincidentally" making the license plate legible.

Your story is silly. They could easily have made the plate legible if they wanted to.

Note also that if the video were faked and the license plate number is attached to a vehicle that had nothing to do with the fire, then it's a little surprising that we haven't heard about the real owner of that plate. It seems somewhat likely that someone would have tracked him down and he would, of course, have quite loudly protested his non-involvement with the incident. Now, this is speculative enough that I wouldn't claim with confidence that the plate number discussed online is real, but if I were making the damn video, I would not be publicizing a plate number that had nothing to do with the fire.

Yet, that is precisely what your theory involves. The point of the video is to include the plate of a vehicle that isn't a hybrid. Of course, it's an illegible plate, but you still posit that the forces behind the video also posted the license plate number -- one necessarily for a vehicle that was uninvolved. It's a stupid plan, both because they didn't make the plate legible yet that was the point of the video and because a plate number for an uninvolved vehicle will quickly be debunked.

[1] Probably the quality has been downloaded downgraded in the upgrades uploads too, but the fixes mentioned above would still allow the plate to be read.

Also if you were trying to divert attention away from Jaguar/ Land Rover you would make the fake a different car.

 

[Andy_Ross]

No Vixen I am not going to waste time searching for 'evidence' on youtube- science and physics tell us exactly what happens when a fuel is atomised when exiting a small hole under pressure- its been in use for over a century- powering the bloody cars!!!
You are the one making the extraordinary claim- you get to provide the proof (of which to date you have provided exactly zero- ever...)
Three threads on this nonsense alone, plus your other multiple conspiracy theories (several also multiple chapters...)

It's how oil fired boilers and furnaces work.
They literally spray oil out of a pipe

 

[Dabop]

It's how oil fired boilers and furnaces work.
They literally spray oil out of a pipe

But only if there is a utube of it happening!!!!

 

[jimbob]

If his interest is blind, it doesn't matter where it is. You still haven't grasped the fact that blind interests are not registered.


Irrelevant. You're accusing Sunak of using his office to manipulate his business interests. It doesn't matter whether those interests are domestic or foreign. The crime alleged is unjust enrichment by misuse of official power.



Speculation wrapped around a straw man.

Indeed. HOW ELSE CAN IT POSSIBLY WORK? "It's a blind trust and the politician only knows what is in his investment portfolio by checking it in the register of interests"? I think I can see a problem with that.

 

[JayUtah]

No Vixen I am not going to waste time searching for 'evidence' on youtube- science and physics tell us exactly what happens when a fuel is atomised when exiting a small hole under pressure- its been in use for over a century- powering the bloody cars!!!

It's how oil fired boilers and furnaces work.
They literally spray oil out of a pipe

Agreed. The suggestion that this is some rare or strange phenomenon is ludicrous. Babcock & Wilcox must be rolling in their graves.

Vixen wants specific examples not just because she thinks they don't exist and we're embarrassed about this. She wants a whipping boy to nitpick. "That's not exactly like what I see in this other video, so..." There are plenty of videos of boiler light-offs. I was in the engine spaces of Jeremiah O'Brien a year or so ago for their six-month light-off and turnover. The problem with getting video of the atomizers at work is that cameras don't survive the inside of a boiler for very long.

Vixen needs details to bog down in so that we won't focus on how broadly ignorant she is.

 

[JayUtah]

Indeed. HOW ELSE CAN IT POSSIBLY WORK

Vixen backpedaled to say that you register the fact that your interests are in a blind trust. I showed her a Guardian article that explicitly says that's not what happens. Blind trusts aren't required to follow any Parliament-imposed rules an aren't registered anywhere.

She doesn't know what she's talking about, and she's blatantly making stuff up to avoid having to admit error.

 

[Mojo]

She doesn't know what she's talking about...

Not necessarily. There are two possibilities: either she doesn't know what she is talking about, or she is not arguing in good faith.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Agreed. The suggestion that this is some rare or strange phenomenon is ludicrous. Babcock & Wilcox must be rolling in their graves.

Vixen wants specific examples not just because she thinks they don't exist and we're embarrassed about this. She wants a whipping boy to nitpick. "That's not exactly like what I see in this other video, so..." There are plenty of videos of boiler light-offs. I was in the engine spaces of Jeremiah O'Brien a year or so ago for their six-month light-off and turnover. The problem with getting video of the atomizers at work is that cameras don't survive the inside of a boiler for very long.

Vixen needs details to bog down in so that we won't focus on how broadly ignorant she is.

You can see them through the spy holes in the furnace end. Might be tricky actually filming them.

I have first hand experience operating oil fired marine boilers. Back in the 70s when I was a teenager, my dad had a contract to recommission a WW2 vintage, ex RN minesweeper that had been converted in to a tank cleaning vessel. It had a 'Scotch' pattern return tube boiler and triple expansion engine. He got the job because he was one of the few engineers that still had a ticket and experience with triple expansion engines having started as a junior engineer way back in the 50s.

As he was also an officer with the sea cadet unit I was part of he organised for cadets to spend the summer holidays aboard and use it as a base for sailing. It wasn't going to leave harbour for months so it was ideal.
I learned how to prepare and fire up the boilers, set them for optimum performance and run the boiler, engine and it's ancillary equipment like feed pumps, condensers, turbo alternators, etc.


In it's former like it was HMS Neave and was renamed to Tulipbank after it was decommissioned from the RN. Vacuum pumping equipment was fitted over the engine room skylights and after deckhouse, the forward mess decks apart from the one right forward in the focsle were converted in to bunkers to store oil cleaned from other ships tanks. It was then used as fuel for the boiler.
That was one of the reasons it was chosen, the old Admiralty Pattern Scotch Boiler wasn't fussy about it's fuel, you could change spray nozzle sizes, pressure and preheat temperature to suit different grades, from almost tar like to diesel.

Tulipbank in the 70s

HMS Neave in 1942

Built in Beverley in East Yorkshire.

 

[JayUtah]

You can see them through the spy holes in the furnace end. Might be tricky actually filming them.

Tried; didn't work.

He got the job because he was one of the few engineers that still had a ticket and experience with triple expansion engines having started as a junior engineer way back in the 50s.

My grandfather was a rural blacksmith who went to the west coast to build Liberty ships during the war. He knew many of the people who stayed on to operate the museum ships that use the same engine, so I'm literally grandfathered into that brotherhood. I'm not qualified to run the engines. But I'm qualified to do other things in the engine spaces.

It must be so embarrassing for Vixen to question the veracity of a common mode of combustion used in thousands of ships and other thermodynamic engines for more than a century and a half.

 

[GlennB]

Tried; didn't work.

My grandfather was a rural blacksmith who went to the west coast to build Liberty ships during the war. He knew many of the people who stayed on to operate the museum ships that use the same engine, so I'm literally grandfathered into that brotherhood. I'm not qualified to run the engines. But I'm qualified to do other things in the engine spaces.

It must be so embarrassing for Vixen to question the veracity of a common mode of combustion used in thousands of ships and other thermodynamic engines for more than a century and a half.

I'd need a YouTube video of Vixen acting embarrassed to confirm she's even capable of it.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Tried; didn't work.



My grandfather was a rural blacksmith who went to the west coast to build Liberty ships during the war. He knew many of the people who stayed on to operate the museum ships that use the same engine, so I'm literally grandfathered into that brotherhood. I'm not qualified to run the engines. But I'm qualified to do other things in the engine spaces.

It must be so embarrassing for Vixen to question the veracity of a common mode of combustion used in thousands of ships and other thermodynamic engines for more than a century and a half.

Not to mention domestic heating furnaces.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Nothing to do with Criminal Law. The issue is the thorny subject of ministerial probity...

How could it not be criminal?

Why are you reluctant to consider this as misconduct in a public office? Your fairy story is not one where the prime minister merely makes otherwise lawful decisions except that they are ones which favour his own financial interests. It's one where the PM corruptly instructs the fire service to lie about a fire safety issue. That is, to state the bleedin' obvious, not a part of his job. That is clearly misconduct.

Similarly, why are you reluctant to say the fire service is lying in your fairy story? They say unequivocal that the fire started in a plain diesel car. Your version of events insists that is false, You say that what they say is false information. Yet for some reason you pussyfoot around it and make absurd excuses about when a press release is not a press release, and will not say that they are lying.

Why are you so coy about that?

 

[Mojo]

How could it not be criminal?

Why are you reluctant to consider this as misconduct in a public office? Your fairy story is not one where the prime minister merely makes otherwise lawful decisions except that they are ones which favour his own financial interests. It's one where the PM corruptly instructs the fire service to lie about a fire safety issue. That is, to state the bleedin' obvious, not a part of his job. That is clearly misconduct.

Similarly, why are you reluctant to say the fire service is lying in your fairy story? They say unequivocal that the fire started in a plain diesel car. Your version of events insists that is false, You say that what they say is false information. Yet for some reason you pussyfoot around it and make absurd excuses about when a press release is not a press release, and will not say that they are lying.

Why are you so coy about that?

Not actually committing to anything is fairly standard behaviour for certain types of conspiracy theorist. Committing to a position would require defending it. Much safer to JAQ off.