Does 'rape culture' accurately describe (many) societies?

[Trausti]

The statistics show the opposite - the younger generations are having less sex with fewer partners than the older generations did at their age.

Actually, I thought those stats show that young women are still having lots of sex but fewer men are. A select group of men having their harem while a lot of guys are at home with porn and video games.

 

[Abooga]

Sorry to barge in without reading the whole thread but there is wiki article which does answer the OP question quite directly:

Does 'rape culture' accurately describe (many) societies?

Yes, that would be an accurate description of the societies listed in this (fascinating and depressing) article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bride_kidnapping

 

[dann]

I think you're missing a big part of this. It's about power - and historically females do not have power over males. For most of our recorded history, the only power we females have had is the power to arouse males... and that is a double-edged sword. We often end up arousing males unintentionally, simply through the fact of our existence.

In these kinds of female-based romance fantasies, the core of the fantasy is about a female exerting power over a male, usually an already very powerful male, and one that the female *wants* to exert power over. In those romance novels, there may be acts of rape, but they're almost (!) never (!) entirely (!) unwanted (!) acts - they're things that the female protagonist wants to have happen anyway. And they almost always end up with the male surrendering some element of their power, some aspect of their dominance, and being *helpless* (!) before the all-consuming power of their love for the female protagonist.

They're not about rape, they're about power. It's just a very crass and to me degrading form of power.

I agree with most of what you have been writing in this thread, but you are actually missing a big part of your own idea of this as well as of my criticism of rape culture.

You are actually confirming what I wrote:

It may "not generally [be] the same kind of rape that happens in real life." No, of course it doesn't, since it's not rape but rape fantasies or idealized rape: Rapists being "entranced by the entirety of the female's being, including their mind and character."

Your talk about wanted rape is the perfect illustration of what I have called fantasy rape or idealization of rape: rape that is rape but isn't really rape, or almost entirely not rape because the men as well as the women "surrender their control over themselves."
The fantasy may not be quite as hideous as actual rape, but it's nevertheless the female version of male rape fantasies - in or outside of porn: The women may play coy, but they actually want it even though they may not even know so themselves. Once it has started, they are bound to get into it because it's what they always wanted deep down inside.

You should ask yourself why anybody at all can find it beautiful, even as a fantasy, to "surrender their control over themselves." It should be obvious to you what the literal realization of this fantasy looks like in real life: bdsm.
Love and sex don't require this at all. You can have sex while still being in full control of yourself, and being in full control of yourself doesn't require being in control of your sex partner. Nobody needs to surrender.
I wouldn't personally want or consent to any other kind.

 

[dann]

And it's become very common for young females to be expected to engage in anal sex as well as choking. That's what is considered "normal" now.

The irony of this! What used to be a homophobic 'argument' against gays, 'poop-pushers', seems to have become the fantasy of an awful lot of heterosexual men. They probably imagine that a kind of sex that women may be unwilling or reluctant to have must, for that very reason, be the epitome of the sexual act.

I have no idea if it has come to the point where young women are "expected to engage in anal sex as well as choking."

 

[Darat]

The irony of this! What used to be a homophobic 'argument' against gays, 'poop-pushers', seems to have become the fantasy of an awful lot of heterosexual men. They probably imagine that a kind of sex that women may be unwilling or reluctant to have must, for that very reason, be the epitome of the sexual act.

I have no idea if it has come to the point where young women are "expected to engage in anal sex as well as choking."

Don't think it has "become" because of recent trends in porn - the data we have points to it always being part of the hetrosexual repertoire.

There is a very interesting study if you want to know about sex in the USA: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8345845/

 

[dann]

I don't say that it didn't exist before "recent trends in porn".
When I was a kid, it was rumored to be the favored way of having pre-marital sex in Catholic countries where women were supposed to be virgins before marriage.
I don't know if it was true.
A lot of what was rumored back then wasn't.

 

[3point14]

I don't say that it didn't exist before "recent trends in porn".
When I was a kid, it was rumored to be the favored way of having pre-marital sex in Catholic countries where women were supposed to be virgins before marriage.
I don't know if it was true.
A lot of what was rumored back then wasn't.

Ah, God's Loophole.

Garfunkel and Oates have a very good song about it.

 

[Poem]

Not for me... I'm almost 50. Most of my experiences were 30 years ago, when most porn was still in magazine or professionally produced movie form.

When I talk to younger females about their experiences, how they're treated, and what is expected of them when having sex, there's definitely a big difference. Those younger females do tend to think that exposure to porn has an impact, and I suspect they're right.

For example, when I was in high school and college, straight sexual interactions were pretty much limited to manual and oral sex, with vaginal penetration as the high point. In college, the most adventurous people I knew *might* have had a threesome, or *might* have had a string of one night stands. From the accounts shared with me by younger females, that has changed. Now the general expectation is that sex is casual in nature, most people are just expected to be down with meaningless sex without a relationship involved and no expectation of fidelity. And it's become very common for young females to be expected to engage in anal sex as well as choking. That's what is considered "normal" now.

Interesting, thanks.

This (your post) is with regard to consensual sex; I was asking if the sexual harassment you have experienced was fuelled by porn ('no', as you say) - so do these younger females think it has been for them? Were you implying that?

Just wanted to be clear.

 

[Darat]

I don't say that it didn't exist before "recent trends in porn".
When I was a kid, it was rumored to be the favored way of having pre-marital sex in Catholic countries where women were supposed to be virgins before marriage.
I don't know if it was true.
A lot of what was rumored back then wasn't.

That is why I mentioned the data and not the rumours. Back to the beginning of modern research into sex the figures were reporting that about 10% of heterosexuals had anal sex.

 

[Poem]

Teachers’ union leader, Daniel Kebede calls for inquiry into misogyny among young men in UK: The Guardian.

Daniel Kebede:

It’s not just influencers such as Andrew Tate, but aggressive hardcore pornography which is really easily accessible to young people. This stuff is having a real impact, particularly on young boys and young men and their views of women and relationships.

There has been no real regulation and it is causing a huge issue in our schools. There’s no doubt about that.

I’ve worked with young girls who have been victims of really, really significant acts of misogyny on more than one occasion, who have experienced abuse, violence, sexual assault, and that is being fuelled by a culture of misogyny and sexism that is in turn being fuelled by what young boys and young men can access on their smartphones.

 

[Poem]

Society:

I don't care about the effects...on young men who are acting out what they see (and on the girls they harass and abuse)...about the rape culture that comes with it....

....just let me at the porn.....

Too harsh?

 

[dirtywick]

not really, we don't really care when they get gunned down in schools, this is small potatoes.

i do agree with you though, i can see how it's really unhealthy for children who are over exposed to pornography. but i also agree with the porn sites when they say it should be moderated at the device end and not up to them.

 

[Darat]

Yep.

Society - adults should be allowed whatever entertainment they like as long as it doesn't harm anyone without their consent.

Society - up to parents to control what their kids have access to

Problem: Most parents are crap at controlling what their kids have access to.

 

[Poem]

Yep.

Society - adults should be allowed whatever entertainment they like as long as it doesn't harm anyone without their consent.

It's harming society - particularly the young, but adult society as well...men are acting out what they see and watching what they once found disgusting...even underage material.

Society - up to parents to control what their kids have access to

Problem: Most parents are crap at controlling what their kids have access to.

One would assume that Daniel Kebede, the general secretary of the National Education Union (whom i quoted above) wouldn't be far off the mark when he said:
"We can’t individualise the issue and put it down to problem parenting, failure of parenting. It’s very difficult when every other child has access to a smartphone to be that parent who says no. There has to be regulation on this from government, who in turn supports families in making those decisions."

 

[Poem]

not really, we don't really care when they get gunned down in schools, this is small potatoes.

i do agree with you though, i can see how it's really unhealthy for children who are over exposed to pornography. but i also agree with the porn sites when they say it should be moderated at the device end and not up to them.

Why not solve the issue BEFORE taking the risk with young people (and adult society as well)?

I mentioned before - two years ago children's charities (in the UK) said the harm done to children is so severe that we should not be waiting for legislation to tackle the issue (which in the UK is the Online Safety Bill).

 

[Darat]

It's harming society - particularly the young, but adult society as well...men are acting out what they see and watching what they once found disgusting...even underage material.



One would assume that Daniel Kebede, the general secretary of the National Education Union (whom i quoted above) wouldn't be far off the mark when he said:
"We can’t individualise the issue and put it down to problem parenting, failure of parenting. It’s very difficult when every other child has access to a smartphone to be that parent who says no. There has to be regulation on this from government, who in turn supports families in making those decisions."

So what? Who said being a parent is meant to be easy and without its difficulties?

 

[Poem]

So what? Who said being a parent is meant to be easy and without its difficulties?

Are you an expert on this issue? If not, then some evidence from someone who is would be of interest. Daniel Kebede could be wrong of course, though it's interesting that the Guardian article makes no attempt to push back on his assertion.

In the meantime 'severe harm' (Children's Charities say) is being done to young people as we speak.

 

[dirtywick]

Why not solve the issue BEFORE taking the risk with young people (and adult society as well)?

something should be done. something viable. on the device side. maybe up to the isps, i'm not sure. but porn side id databases aren't going to work. it didn't work with crypto casinos, not going to work with porn sites.

 

[Poem]

something should be done. something viable. on the device side. maybe up to the isps, i'm not sure. but porn side id databases aren't going to work. it didn't work with crypto casinos, not going to work with porn sites.

Ok, I'm no expert but I posted this before:

If age verification has worked for gambling (biometricupdate.com), then what are we waiting for with regard to pornography?

Online age verification in gambling has proven effective and there is limited evidence to suggest that further measures are needed to prevent minors from gambling online, according to a new UK government review of the country’s gambling regulation.

 

[dirtywick]

effective in what capacity, i'm not sure. there's also been a huge rise in vpn friendly no id crypto casinos and those same offshore cryptocasinos advertise directly to children through sites like twitch and kick.