Cont: Luton Airport Car Park Fire part II

[JayUtah]

I was simply refuting Mojo's claim that I was an 11th percentile Dunning-Kruger person who thinks they are 62nd percentile, on tests such as humour, or logic.

Mojo pointed out the well-established finding that people often think they are much smarter than they actually are. You clearly fit that category, as has been copiously demonstrated in this thread.

You can claim 'demonstrably poor reasoning'...

No, I observe it.

but only one person in two hundred passed the Civil Service Fast Track exam back in the day. This was an objective test marked by independent assessors.

This the claim ^^.

Again, we observe that you do not have the required understanding for your conclusions to have evidentiary value. We observe that you do not exhibit sound reasoning. You respond as usual with embellished claims that are neither plausible nor relevant. If you cannot demonstrate logically sound reasoning, it doesn't matter what tests you say you pass. You fail the test that matters.

 

[JayUtah]

Ha! Dunning-Kruger 98th percentile.

What on Earth are you blabbering about?

 

[Foster Zygote]

...what?

I suspect she thinks she's cleverly implying that you're suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect when you say you weren't interested in joining MENSA. How she thinks this is the case is anyone's guess. It would certainly indicate that she doesn't understand the D-K effect at all.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

I suspect she thinks she's cleverly implying that you're suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect when you say you weren't interested in joining MENSA. How she thinks this is the case is anyone's guess. It would certainly indicate that she doesn't understand the D-K effect at all.

Ok...that makes no goddamn sense. Why would 'I passed but didn't want to join' indicate that?

 

[P.J. Denyer]

For anyone that's interested -:

[PDF] Civil Service Fast Track Practice Questions - GOV.UK
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk › file

 

[JayUtah]

For anyone that's interested -:

[PDF] Civil Service Fast Track Practice Questions - GOV.UK
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk › file

So, as presently constituted, a test of judgment in an institutional or collaborative setting—not any sort of test of logical reasoning.

 

[JayUtah]

It would certainly indicate that she doesn't understand the D-K effect at all.

Which is fully in keeping with (a) their findings, and (b) her behavior. For what it's worth, I passed the Mensa exam too, and also did not choose to join. I was not a good social fit.

 

[phiwum]

I was simply refuting Mojo's claim that I was an 11th percentile Dunning-Kruger person who thinks they are 62nd percentile, on tests such as humour, or logic. You can claim 'demonstrably poor reasoning' but only one person in two hundred passed the Civil Service Fast Track exam back in the day. This was an objective test marked by independent assessors.

And I got the highest possible score[1] on the Math GRE back in the day (1993), but that is hardly proof that I'm a very good mathematician today.

I wonder if most people would call this Civil Service exam a "logic test". (ETA: Thanks to the link from P.J., I can see that the answer is no. At least, it's not anything I recognize as a test of logic or even critical thinking and I think it's fair to say I know a thing or two about these subjects.)

[1] As I recall I missed two problems, so it wasn't flawless, but I got the same numeric score as a person who missed no problems, due to the oddities of US entrance exams.

 

[LondonJohn]

I was simply refuting Mojo's claim that I was an 11th percentile Dunning-Kruger person who thinks they are 62nd percentile, on tests such as humour, or logic. You can claim 'demonstrably poor reasoning' but only one person in two hundred passed the Civil Service Fast Track exam back in the day. This was an objective test marked by independent assessors.

LMAO

 

[LondonJohn]

I think it is quite clear. That is where Vixen thinks she stands on the Dunning Kruger "scale" - right at the top. I cannot argue with her assessment.

Indeed. Lovely unintended irony

 

[JayUtah]

I wonder if most people would call this Civil Service exam a "logic test".

It clearly isn't. It's a test of judgment, not logic. The LSAT, for example, is a logic test as "logic" is commonly defined. But insofar as "logic" is a heavily overloaded term—like "science"—then I'm certain someone will try to apply the loosest, most informal meaning.

 

[phiwum]

It clearly isn't. It's a test of judgment, not logic. The LSAT, for example, is a logic test as "logic" is commonly defined. But insofar as "logic" is a heavily overloaded term—like "science"—then I'm certain someone will try to apply the loosest, most informal meaning.

It certainly is not uncommon to misuse the term. Much of the time, to say someone is "logical" is to say he agrees with me (or I with him).

 

[Vixen]

I suspect she thinks she's cleverly implying that you're suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect when you say you weren't interested in joining MENSA. How she thinks this is the case is anyone's guess. It would certainly indicate that she doesn't understand the D-K effect at all.

I was chuckling because he thinks 98th percentile is anything special.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

I was chuckling because he thinks 98th percentile is anything special.

I never claimed it was. Nor did I claim I was in the 98th percentile.

 

[Vixen]

LMAO

Latest figures:

How competitive is the fast stream?
The overall success rate for the fast stream – the number of applicants recommended for appointment as a proportion of all applicants – was 1.8% in 2021. This was marginally lower than 2020, continuing a downward trend since 2013.

Different streams have different success rates. In 2021, these varied between 9.6% (operational research) and 0.1% (Houses of Parliament). A full breakdown is provided by the government.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/article/explainer/civil-service-fast-stream

 

[EHocking]

…You can claim 'demonstrably poor reasoning' but only one person in two hundred passed the Civil Service Fast Track exam back in the day. This was an objective test marked by independent assessors.

You do know that the published “pass rate” is not an indication of test score, but “Success rate is the number of applicants recommended for appointment as a proportion of all applicants”

So not the indication of logic superiority that you claim it is.

But you should have known that, given your boasted logic superiority to the 199 others you claim to be smarter than “back in the day”.

 

[Vixen]

For anyone that's interested -:

[PDF] Civil Service Fast Track Practice Questions - GOV.UK
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk › file

Situational Judgement Questions which you have selected is just a small sample out of a whole variety.

 

[Vixen]

…You can claim 'demonstrably poor reasoning' but only one person in two hundred passed the Civil Service Fast Track exam back in the day. This was an objective test marked by independent assessors.

You do know that the published “pass rate” is not an indication of test score, but “Success rate is the number of applicants recommended for appointment as a proportion of all applicants”

So not the indication of logic superiority that you claim it is.

But you should have known that, given your boasted logic superiority to the 199 others you claim to be smarter than “back in the day”.

I did not say I was superior I was refuting Mojo's claim that I was an 11th percenter who thinks they are 62nd percenters.

Back in the day, it was a straightforward exam and only the roughly one in two hundred who passed were invited to an interview. I passed it, so hardly an 11 percenter who thinks they are 62nd percenters.

 

[W.D.Clinger]

Further, if by "normed" you mean norm-referenced, then your claim to have scored at "maximum or near maximum" is patently false, because no such value exist for a norm-referenced test.

I don't know what you mean by that.

As noted by Wikipedia, "Many college entrance exams and nationally used school tests use norm-referenced tests" and "IQ tests are norm-referenced tests". Those tests typically consist of a finite number of multiple-choice questions, or questions of some similar type that can be graded objectively by machine. It is possible to answer every question correctly, thereby achieving the test's maximum possible score.

At the time and place where I grew up, most secondary schools that gave IQ tests to students used a test that maxed out at 150. At that time, the SAT and GRE consisted of two subtests, each maxing out at 800, for a combined max of 1600. (There was at least one year in which the math portion of the GRE was judged to be significantly more difficult than usual, leading the relevant authority to give out a few scores of 820 on that subtest, leading to a few scores of 1620 on the combined.)

Maxing out is unusual, but not unheard of. I went to school with a few people who did indeed max out on one or more of those tests. As a member of admissions committees for various graduate degree programs, I got to know some other people who maxed out on at least one of the GRE subtests.

But the salient point is that claiming to have scored very high on multiple "logic tests" to insinuate a qualification that forces us to ignore demonstrably poor reasoning is a feeble ploy. No one asked Vixen how she scored on these or any tests. She's offering it up voluntarily as some sort of reason why we should ignore her inability to reason.

Having known several people who really did max out on an IQ test or SAT or GRE, it isn't at all hard for me to doubt whether someone who displays consistently poor reasoning has ever maxed out one of those standardized tests of IQ or academic aptitude.

 

[novaphile]

Which is fully in keeping with (a) their findings, and (b) her behavior. For what it's worth, I passed the Mensa exam too, and also did not choose to join. I was not a good social fit.

Wow, three data points in a row, I wonder how common this is, or if we're just a really weird sample.

In my case, I was invented to sit the MENSA exam as a teenager, (IIRC because of the results of the "Canberra Mathematics Competition") and was invited to join, on the strength of the results of the exam.

I attended a single 'meet and greet' and felt that I had never met a duller group of people in my life. By comparison to the other adults I knew, through school, music and the theatre, they seemed to pale into insignificance.

Hence, I politely declined.

(The politely part was very unusual for me at the time.)

In case anyone has any doubt, one of my employment references clearly states:

"Does not suffer fools gladly."

I'd like to think I'm better behaved now, but could just be deceiving myself.