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Transwomen are not Women - Part 14

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I'm frustrated because it's all so goddamn pointless. We could give people 99% of what they want outside of rare edge cases without banging the language so hard we kill and then just keep banging it, mistaking the twitches for it still being alive.

Oh I know, you're preaching to the choir my friend.

It's like this one time (not at band camp), when my dad was out of town for work and my mom was home alone for a couple of weeks. My mom is actually arachnophobia - not just scared of spiders, but full on irrational about it. A spider showed up in the garage, and mustering all of their courage, they killed it with a broom - squashed it to a pile of goo with some legs sticking out right in the middle of the walkway. That was like day 2 after dad flew out.

Mom left the spider there, because they were afraid it might come back to life, and if it did, they would need to know that so they could prepare. So they checked on it a few times every day, to make sure the corpse was still there... and every couple of days, they'd squash it some more to make sure it wasn't bluffing. Like I said - genuine arachnophobia.

The difference is that in our case... the spider DOES keep resurrecting, and it sings show tunes every time it rises from the dead.
 
Oh we're back to the "Gender/Sex" thing again.

Yet again the one actual transperson we've heard from was very clear, she was a lady/woman in both sex and gender with her lady/woman penis.
 
CR0oJZT.png


Alternatively:
"Man, 18, is jailed for brutal gun murder of girl, 12, he'd raped."
 
[qimg]https://i.imgur.com/CR0oJZT.png[/qimg]

Alternatively:
"Man, 18, is jailed for brutal gun murder of girl, 12, he'd raped."

And/or "male transvestite" or "erstwhile male sexless eunuch" ...

But you have an actual link for that?

Why it's rather important to be able to call a spade an effen shovel. And let the chips fall where they may, regardless of who might be "offended" by it.
 
Oh we're back to the "Gender/Sex" thing again.

Yet again the one actual transperson we've heard from was very clear, she was a lady/woman in both sex and gender with her lady/woman penis.
So you subscribe to the rather untenable if not cretinous idea that "sex" and "gender" are synonymous? :rolleyes:

There are clearly two sets of "orthogonal" traits in play. Kind of helps to put them into separate categories ...
 
So you subscribe to the rather untenable if not cretinous idea that "sex" and "gender" are synonymous?

I "subscribe" to this having been discussed to death and back and I'm not starting over from first principles just to accommodate you.

Read the thread, get caught up on what people have already discussed, and then join us back at the grown up table.
 
:thumbsup::) Thanks, I think. Another rather depressing indication of most transwomen being crazier than [poo-house :rolleyes:] rats, being charitable.

For the most part in any case, transwoman Anne Lawrence probably being something of a notable exception:

Shame and Narcissistic Rage in Autogynephilic Transsexualism
Anne A. Lawrence
https://annelawrence.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/Lawrence-2008-shame-and-narcissistic-rage.pdf

Though Wikipedia's article on "her" really chaps my hide since they're part and parcel, an "accessory [before] and after the fact" of the crime that MailOnline has described:

Anne Alexandra Lawrence (born November 17, 1950) is an American psychologist, sexologist, and former anesthesiologist who has published extensively on gender incongruence. Anne transitioned from male to female in her 40s.[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Lawrence

Sure would like to see evidence of "her", at any stage of "her" life, having produced any ova at all ... :rolleyes:

What tangled webs we weave ... ICYMI, Helen Joyce had some rather "pithy" and quite brilliant observations on that score:

And you can expect dire consequences if you lie in your law and your policymaking and your education of all sorts at every level in school and universities about something absolutely fundamental to the nature of humanity. ....

When you have a lie at the heart of an institution, it flips the purpose of that institution on its head. I’ll just take one example out of many. If you have a safeguarding institution, like a school or the regulator for social work, and you put a lie at its heart, which is that sex is a self-defined category, when it is not, then that institution can no longer safeguard because safeguarding essentially requires you to say what sex everybody is, that men and women are rather different in terms of their risks and the risks they pose to others and the risks they pose to children. ....

And so when you have a lie at the heart of an institution, the next thing that happens is everybody has to be silenced about it. And before you know it, that institution turns on its head and seeks to do the exact opposite of what it was set up to do. So now you have, for example, right now, Social Work England is defending a case taken by a social worker who lost her job for saying that she didn’t think that there are more than two sexes.
https://lawliberty.org/podcast/when-does-sex-matter/
 
I "subscribe" to this having been discussed to death and back and I'm not starting over from first principles just to accommodate you.
:rolleyes: Given that there are some 14 parts and probably some 14,000 posts in the thread I'm not about to waste my time "listening" to all of the "he said, she said".

If you're not even able to say whether or not you subscribe to the "incoherent" idea that sex and gender are synonymous then that's some reason to argue you're incapable of it or that you're part of the problem. Which more than a few have drawn attention to, not that you seem to have been listening:

Conflation of words "sex" and "gender" has arisen from Christian prudishness in a language that doesn't have gendered words (English). "Sex" is a homograph - word w 2 meanings. Sex=intercourse. Also sex=man, woman, boy, girl, male, female. Gender=masculine, feminine, neutral.
https://twitter.com/lascapigliata8/status/957968082978340864

Investigating Conflation of Sex and Gender Language in Student Writing About Genetics
Conflation of sex and gender is implicated in the development of essentialist thinking, which has been linked to the justification of systems of prejudice in modern society. This exploratory study presents findings from a person randomized control trial conducted with 460 students in 8th–10th grade that investigated the extent to which students conflate sex and gender in their writing about genetics.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11191-020-00177-9

Explaining the Conflation Triangle between Sex, Gender and Sexual Orientation
Valdes presents his theory that a combination of androcentrism (masculine point of view) and heterosexism leads to the conflation of sex, gender and sexual orientation in the Euro-American sex and gender system, according to his 1996 Yale Journal of Law & the Humanities article.
https://pepperdine-graphic.com/expl...le-between-sex-gender-and-sexual-orientation/

Read the thread, get caught up on what people have already discussed, and then join us back at the grown up table.
:rolleyes: Precious bloody little of that in this rather benighted neck of the woods. Wouldn't have gone on as long as it has if there had been more of them about.
 
From the associated article

"Children who are experiencing ‘psychotic episode, drug addiction or self-harming’ will be eligible for hormones, as long as the ‘associated difficulties… are not escalating’...
‘Ideally there will be support … from one or both parents (the family)/carers, or social support if the individual is a ‘Looked After Child’, and the Local Authority has been consulted.’ Non-binary individuals will be deemed eligible for hormones."
 
Ultrasound works.
No need to assign anything. It just is.
Elective abortions rely on this accuracy. Imagine a dystopian world where we accidentally aborted a boy!!
 
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Please keep the biology discussions in the appropriate thread.

Please remain civil.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Agatha
 
Jesse Singal just wrote an interesting account of the reporting by CNN of the UK policy on puberty blockers.

The article reporting this contains the sentence "Gender-affirming care is medically necessary, evidence-based care that uses a multidisciplinary approach to help a person transition from their assigned gender — the one the person was designated at birth — to their affirmed gender — the gender by which one wants to be known.”

As Singal points out, the claim that gender-affirming care is medically necessary and evidence-based is highly dubious, especially for minors, but is stated as fact rather than opinion. This same statement has been published repeatedly in multiple pieces by CNN over several years, and the rationale given is that reporters are given 'guidance about accurate and appropriate language'. However, this is a contested scientific claim, not a style guide. CNN is reporting on a policy of moving away from medical transition for minors due to lack of evidence, while simultaneously implying that this change in policy must be wrong because there is evidence. No wonder so many people in the US have warped opinions on this issue when they are being routinely fed this type of misinformation.

Incidentally, in the same blog article Singal seems to interpret the NHS policy on CSH for adolescents aged 16 or older as relatively stringent.
 
Eschewing socially-constructed gender norms shouldn't be the kind of thing that needs multi-disciplinary medical care to help someone affirm.

But of course what they're really talking about here isn't gender-affirming care but rather sex-denying care.

"Care."
 
If you're not even able to say whether or not you subscribe to the "incoherent" idea that sex and gender are synonymous then that's some reason to argue you're incapable of it or that you're part of the problem. Which more than a few have drawn attention to, not that you seem to have been listening.

Why do you think it's incoherent and why then do you keep putting the word incoherent in scare quotes?

I don't think we need the word gender at all to be applied to humans. In most of our history, it hasn't been used that way and I don't see anything gained by it. On the contrary, I see a lot of attempts at sleight of hand and attempts to gain power through language based upon the word "gender" as applied to humans. What would we lose if we did away with it?

We could use words and phrases such as the following:

- sex
- sexual roles
- sexy!
- sexual stereotypes
- sexual revolution
- sexy Sadie
- Sex in the City

I see nothing added by using the word "gender" and lots of negatives and obfuscation.
 
Why do you think it's incoherent ...
Because the words are commonly used in many different and quite contradictory ways. I see that Elaedith quoted a Singal article in a recent comment that underlines those ambiguities, inconsistencies, and "mission-critical" contradictions:
Gender-affirming care is medically necessary ... care ... to help a person transition from their assigned gender — the one the person was designated at birth — to their affirmed gender — the gender by which one wants to be known.

Rank flaming insanity. Being charitable. To a fault. Jesus, Himself, would be hard-pressed to do better.

NO ONE changes their sex which is basically what they're arguing or what their dogma boils down into. NO ONE gets to exchange their ovaries for testicles or vice versa. NO ONE is assigned a gender at birth. Does the midwife put on a sorting hat and says, "hmm, clearly destined to be an introvert, or maybe an INFP or possibly an ESTJ ..."? :rolleyes:

Because that is basically what gender boils down into -- sexually dimorphic personality traits. The conflation of those traits with the underlying traits that define the sex categories is the problem -- as I've indicated here several times.

Clearly differentiating between the two sets of traits -- between those, on the one hand, that are intrinsic or essential to the whole process of reproduction, and those, on the other hand, that are not, but which correlate with the first set -- is what seems an essential step in resolving the whole problem. Which has a great many quite serious consequences. Philosopher Will Durant on Voltaire:
Durant: 'If you wish to converse with me,' said Voltaire, 'define your terms.' How many a debate would have been deflated into a paragraph if the disputants had dared to define their terms! This is the alpha and omega of logic, the heart and soul of it, that every important term in serious discourse shall be subjected to strictest scrutiny and definition. It is difficult, and ruthlessly tests the mind; but once done it is half of any task."

https://quotefancy.com/quote/300152...me-said-Voltaire-define-your-terms-How-many-a


... and why then do you keep putting the word incoherent in scare quotes?
Being charitable; being kind; trying -- is spite of extreme provocation ... -- to be "civil" ... ;):)

I don't think we need the word gender at all to be applied to humans. In most of our history, it hasn't been used that way and I don't see anything gained by it.
Oxford Dictionaries -- arguably a if not the gold standard -- has chapter and verse showing that that is not at all the case:

https://www.oed.com/dictionary/gender_n

Moot exactly how "gender" and "sex" have been used in all of those cases -- and I really don't have the time or the linguistics background to get very far into the question. But there's some reason to argue that, as I've argued above, the former were related to "accidental properties" and the latter to "essential properties" of the sex categories defined on the basis of actual, not potential, abilities to reproduce.

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/essential-accidental/

On the contrary, I see a lot of attempts at sleight of hand and attempts to gain power through language based upon the word "gender" as applied to humans. What would we lose if we did away with it?
A great deal, a massive amount. For one thing, the ability to differentiate between those accidental and essential properties.

Those sexually dimorphic traits -- particularly in personality traits, behaviours, roles, and predilections -- seem ubiquitous and of more than passing import. See this article in 4th Wave Now, one of the co-authors being Colin Wright:

https://4thwavenow.com/2019/08/19/n...r-thoughts-on-the-concept-of-gender-identity/

Of particular note is a graph of a two dimensional joint probability distribution that emphasizes the wide differences in the average values of many traits between men and women. As Helen Dale has emphasized, evolution didn't stop at our necks. Notwithstanding the bogus assertions of various "feminists" to the contrary.

I see nothing added by using the word "gender" and lots of negatives and obfuscation.
No doubt many are trying to make political hay out of that obfuscation. Notably in using "male" and "female" as genders -- why I've repeatedly insisted on using "masculine" and "feminine" as genders, and on reserving "male" and "female" to denote the sexes as transitory reproductive abilities:
Anne transitioned from male to female in her 40s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Lawrence
In 2012, Hubbard transitioned to female. She began hormone therapy that year. Hubbard competed in international weightlifting for the first time in 2017
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurel_Hubbard
https://humanuseofhumanbeings.substack.com/p/wikipedias-lysenkoism

And why I've expended some effort in trying to put gender -- as some set of those sexually dimorphic personality traits -- on something of a sound scientific footing, at least as a way of separating wheat and chaff:


https://humanuseofhumanbeings.substack.com/p/a-multi-dimensional-gender-spectrum

Sexual dimorphism really is a ubiquitous phenomenon, and it extends far beyond simple physical traits or "phenotypes". Seems of more than passing value and import to understand the roots of it -- which I think will be impossible if we abandon both the term "gender" and the profound differences between it and "sex":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender
 
Sex is a fact of nature. It is immutable, it cannot be changed.

Gender is a human social construct. It is flexible, and can be changed at the will of the individual.

When a human changes gender, they are NOT changing their sex.

TRA's would call me "transphobic" for making such a statement.

And the tide continues to turn

https://deadline.com/2024/03/bbc-sex-and-gender-briefing-jk-rowling-1235864310/

"BBC Presenters Told To Challenge Guests Who Label Others “Transphobic” After J.K. Rowling Errors"
BBC presenters have been told to challenge guests who accuse others of transphobia after the broadcaster admitted that news items on J.K. Rowling fell short of its editorial standards.

In an internal briefing note, BBC journalists and production teams were advised that “care is needed” when people are labeled “transphobic” and the term should be interrogated during on-air debate.

The advice featured in a nine-page document on “reporting sex and gender” circulated to the BBC newsroom late last year. Deadline has obtained the briefing, which can be read in full below.

The guidance follows the BBC apologizing to Rowling twice last year. The Harry Potter author was accused of transphobia by trans rights advocates, but the claim was not properly challenged by presenters, including Radio 4’s Evan Davis.

The briefing note was issued to help journalists navigate what BBC director general Tim Davie described this week as an “area of controversy.” He told lawmakers that the BBC’s detractors were attempting to whip up a “deeply damaging” narrative around the corporation’s output on gender identity issues.




​
 
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