Does 'rape culture' accurately describe (many) societies?

[TragicMonkey]

There are a whole whole lot of people who seem to feel no shame sharing their kinks and paraphilias with the world, talking about it openly, and advocating that it be accepted everywhere.

So what? If the kink or paraphillia isn't harming anybody, why shouldn't they? What justification do you have for wanting to shame other people over it?

 

[Ziggurat]

Bring back kink-shaming

Unlike lobosrul5, I think that might accomplish something. But I don't see a way to actually do it. We don't have the sort of shared social authorities we used to have that could advance such views. Nobody cares what the church thinks about porn, for example.

 

[lobosrul5]

Then you are reading it wrong. Read the thread. The entire thread. At least read the OP. The subject is "Does 'rape culture' accurately describe (many) societies?" If your defintion of "rape culture", which you supplied, is "a point where the rate of rapes is the same for male and female victims" then, as I pointed out, there is probably no culture in existence now or in the past that has ever met the requirement you stated; therefore every culture is and has been a "rape culture".

Not only that but evidence seems to be that rape is less accepted now, in most Western countries anyways, than at pretty much any time before with perhaps a handful of exceptions. Spousal rape, rape of any woman without proper status/escort, rape of non-citizens, rape as a tool of warfare, rape as a tool of oppression. These used to be all very common. Despite easy access to free porn on handheld devices being a very recent phenomena.

 

[Ziggurat]

So what? If the kink or paraphillia isn't harming anybody, why shouldn't they?

Because maybe that "if" isn't true, maybe paraphilias do harm even when the harm isn't obvious.

 

[lobosrul5]

Unlike lobosrul5, I think that might accomplish something. But I don't see a way to actually do it. We don't have the sort of shared social authorities we used to have that could advance such views. Nobody cares what the church thinks about porn, for example.

I guess it depends on the kink. Surely no one cares if I have a thing for women who wear blue ribbons in their hair?!

 

[Poem]

No, it hasn't. Claims have been presented here. Evidence that PH hosted some really bad stuff has been presented here. No evidence has been presented that people using PH but not searching for that stuff would run into it.

I assume that a titles such as 'Passed out Teen' and 'Teen Getting Destroyed' would be searched for or wouldn't be passed over if offered?

As posted before: Rose Kalemba as a 14-year-old was violently raped by two men. Another man filmed the attack, which was then uploaded to Pornhub. The videos were entitled 'Passed out Teen' and 'Teen Getting Destroyed'.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Because maybe that "if" isn't true, maybe paraphilias do harm even when the harm isn't obvious.

And maybe not attending Catholic Mass every Sunday and getting the sacraments is harming your immortal soul. Are you going to rush to church because I suggested it? Even if I really, really, really think I'm right about it?

If a harm cannot be demonstrated then it is folly to assume it exists, and downright tyranny to compel others to alter behavior based on this non-provable threat.

 

[Ziggurat]

I assume that a titles such as 'Passed out Teen' and 'Teen Getting Destroyed' would be searched for or wouldn't be passed over if offered?

As posted before: Rose Kalemba as a 14-year-old was violently raped by two men. Another man filmed the attack, which was then uploaded to Pornhub. The videos were entitled 'Passed out Teen' and 'Teen Getting Destroyed'.

What's your point? Nobody here disputes that such content was on the platform. Nobody here disputes that such content could be found by users who searched for it. But that wasn't the claim. The claim was that people on the platform who DIDN'T look for that sort of content would run into it. And this isn't evidence that that's true.

 

[dirtywick]

Its either a lot of people making very little money, or few people making a lot of money.

it's probably both, but i was speaking towards the content itself. it seems, primarily user generated but in other respects gives the performers way more independence and control which is in many ways much different than the studio produced stuff.

 

[Ziggurat]

If a harm cannot be demonstrated then it is folly to assume it exists

I haven't assumed it exists. I'm suggesting that figuring out if it exists takes more than a cursory glance, and I don't think you've done more than that.

Paraphilias strike me as much like addictions. And addictions usually do harm. Often primarily to the addict, but harm nonetheless.

 

[Poem]

What's your point? Nobody here disputes that such content was on the platform. Nobody here disputes that such content could be found by users who searched for it. But that wasn't the claim. The claim was that people on the platform who DIDN'T look for that sort of content would run into it. And this isn't evidence that that's true.

Sort of content? I assume that someone who enjoys an "adult" posing as a teen would have enjoyed Rose Kalemba's video. Of cource, what they were actually watching was child rape.

Fuelling (ie financing) it as well.

 

[TragicMonkey]

I haven't assumed it exists. I'm suggesting that figuring out if it exists takes more than a cursory glance, and I don't think you've done more than that.

You make the claim a thing causes harm, the burden's on you to prove it. Until you can do it, it's insane to expect other people to alter their behavior. You wouldn't argue against that if the subject were 5G or Bigfoot, would you?

Paraphilias strike me as much like addictions. And addictions usually do harm. Often primarily to the addict, but harm nonetheless.

Cute, but unless it's "striking you" with a big ole box of proof it's not useful in the least.

 

[Ziggurat]

Sort of content? I assume that someone who enjoys an "adult" posing as a teen would have enjoyed Rose Kalemba's video. Of cource, what they were actually watching was child rape.

Fuelling (ie financing) it as well.

You seem to be arguing against a different claim than I actually made. I don't see what this has to do with what I've actually written.

 

[Emily's Cat]

i've read varying views on it from that's it's anywhere from bad to good and i'm not sure how widespread either is. i only have a male perspective on this all anyway so i'd be hesitant to comment on it.

Fair enough

 

[Emily's Cat]

You think Mike Farley was exaggerating? He isn't the only employee of Pornhub caught on camera talking about lax moderation.

Not sure we're talking about the same things.

I'm talking about whether or not an average user of PH is likely to be shown illegal content when they didn't go looking for it or not. That's not at all the same as talking about whether such content is being hosted on PH - I'm quite certain that it is, in much higher volumes than we would like.

 

[Emily's Cat]

OK. Well, theres probably no putting the genie back in the bottle. Unless you are advocating the discussion of said kinks be made illegal?

Bring back kink shaming.

I'm not kidding. Some sorts of behaviors should not be ignored or accepted. That's not the same as saying they should be illegal.

Should it be illegal for people to use racial slurs with abandon? Absolutely not, I would very strongly oppose efforts to make that illegal. On the other hand... I also very strongly support everyone else calling out such language and expressing how much they disapprove of it, and how downright ****** up it is.

"Oh, you get off on watching males get raped in cartoons? Well, you're a sicko perv and you ought to be ashamed of yourself."

 

[Emily's Cat]

Then you are reading it wrong. Read the thread. The entire thread. At least read the OP. The subject is "Does 'rape culture' accurately describe (many) societies?" If your defintion of "rape culture", which you supplied, is "a point where the rate of rapes is the same for male and female victims" then, as I pointed out, there is probably no culture in existence now or in the past that has ever met the requirement you stated; therefore every culture is and has been a "rape culture".

"Which robs it of some impact"

 

[Darat]

OK. But you accept that going on Pornhub will probably result in seeing someone being raped and or someone who is underage?

Assuming you consume a fair amount, of course.

Nope.

I am absolutely sure that is not the case.

 

[Darat]

Now Darat, that's hyperbolic of you. Of course most people would recognize a 5 year old. But what about a 14 year old or a 16 year old? Hell, how many people out there are wildly in support of Belle Delphine - who goes to great lengths to make sure that they look like a 12 year old child? If so many people are all in for Delphine's sex while intentionally looking like a child, how certain are you that they'll be able to recognize an actual child and won't just assume that it's an adult dressed like a kid?

And when it's user-uploaded content, how do you know that it's a consensual depiction of faked brutality with good acting, as opposed to actual brutality of a non-consenting victim?

Child pornography is (mainly) about pre pubescent children and there is nothing hyperbolic about that statement. Unfortunately the term peadophilia is often casually banded about to talk about someone who - as an example - may be 16 when in their country/state the AOC is 17. That is not child pornography, I do understand why we try to not think about what child pornography is really about, it is utterly incomprehensible to us that for example someone could assault a 5 year old in any kind of sexual manner. Personally I think even using the term child pornography is wrong, it is like using a term like “kiddie fiddlers”, it hides what it is, which is simply infant and child abuse.

You are in fact minimising the abuse of children by ignoring the reality of child abuse that some people upload.

 

[Darat]

I don't feel any obligation to pretend to kindness on this - that's some horrifically depraved and sick ****. That's not even remotely okay, and we as a society should NOT tolerate it. It's just plain ****** up.

It’s absolutely common in “erotica” wrote by women for women, so much so that they have now generated tags that will label such content.