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Cont: Luton Airport Car Park Fire part II

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I have the official educational equivalent of two masters degrees.

Equivalency judged by whom?

Is either of those pseudo-Master degrees in psychology?
Is either of those pseudo-Master degrees in an experimental or physical science?
Is either of those pseudo-Master degrees in physics?
Is either of those pseudo-Master degrees in a field that adjudicates your understanding of the Official Secrets Act?
Is either of those pseudo-Master degrees in forensic engineering?
Is either of those pseudo-Master degrees in firefighting or fire engineering?
 
If you believe that it is not true that firefighters at the scene are not allowed to speak to the press, then please provide your reasoning.

Straw man. The question is whether the firefighters on the scene, or anywhere, were or are prohibited from talking to the press by obligations under the Official Secrets Act. You say they are, but you can provide no evidence or justification for this beyond free imagination.
 
I have the official educational equivalent of two masters degrees.

End of.

An education does not make a person smart. Or able to understand basic facts. Or even of sound mind. When discussing things outside of your claimed field of education it means absolutely nothing. So keep it to yourself. It is irrelevant.
 
Straw man. The question is whether the firefighters on the scene, or anywhere, were or are prohibited from talking to the press by obligations under the Official Secrets Act. You say they are, but you can provide no evidence or justification for this beyond free imagination.

No, you asked me for an example of when it could apply,
 
An education does not make a person smart. Or able to understand basic facts. Or even of sound mind. When discussing things outside of your claimed field of education it means absolutely nothing. So keep it to yourself. It is irrelevant.

I totally agree with you but JayUtah thinks it is desperately important.
 
I totally agree with you but JayUtah thinks it is desperately important.

No, this is not a JayUtah problem. When challenged regarding your knowledge of eyewitness testimony, you offered up something that sounded like relevant academic qualifications. Piercing the fog of your equivocal language to see what your actual academic experience has been is the appropriate responsive exercise.

If you had claimed some other, more practical, basis for your purported knowledge of eyewitness testimony, we would have had a different discussion. But you did not. We're debating your chosen proffer for the foundation of your knowledge in that area.

And the problem there is that, when tested, you demonstrated your beliefs regarding eyewitness testimony rose no higher than the typical lay misconceptions. This is why the debate arose on that point in the first place.
 
I totally agree with you but JayUtah thinks it is desperately important.

no JayUtah does not think that. This is merely another example of your claimed education, that did not make you smart, or able to understand facts, or even to maintain a sound mind, failing you.
 
I have the official educational equivalent of two masters degrees.

End of.

The official equivalent of a masters degree is a masters degree. Continuing vocational education after graduation is not post graduate work, and does not confer anything like the equivalent of a masters degree. At best it makes you a better journeyman in your chosen trade.
 
no JayUtah does not think that. This is merely another example of your claimed education, that did not make you smart, or able to understand facts, or even to maintain a sound mind, failing you.

Similarly, claims to have studied business and industry up, down, around, and through don't seem to have equated to being able to discuss the Official Secrets Act at any level other than hand-waving and question-begging—vague allusions to "terror attacks," and so forth.

The claim is, "The Official Secrets Act would require firefighters to keep mum about the cause of the fire." Naturally this claim presumes understanding of firefighter policy and of the Act. Consequently, the question is then, "How do you know that?" We want to know whether an appropriate foundation exists for the claim. Paring away the obvious handwaving and fertile imagination, the actionable answer is, "I have studied business extensively."

That's plausible on its face. But we don't stop there. A facially plausible assertion is just our license to test actual proficiency. If the answer were along the lines, "Gee, I just know..." then we could reject the claim at that stage as mere assumption without further effort.

From that basis of knowledge, then, it should be possible for the claimant to demonstrate a facility with the Act that rises above mere magical argumentation—that is, merely mentioning the Act and the claim in the same sentence and shouting, "Abracadabra! Proved!" This is where Vixen has failed. She didn't know formal notification was no longer a thing. And when asked to find the parts of the Act that describe what she claims it forbids and how, she can't do it. The argument then as whole fails because its foundational premise failed.

It's a long-winded way of saying that people ought to know what they're talking about if they want to be taken seriously.
 
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Anyway, after all that.
It was a diesel car as confirmed by the fire service months ago and now also by the police.
 
The official equivalent of a masters degree is a masters degree. Continuing vocational education after graduation is not post graduate work, and does not confer anything like the equivalent of a masters degree. At best it makes you a better journeyman in your chosen trade.

Correct, I say from the perspective of having earned a living both in academia and in the professional world.

While certificate-granting institutions like to say their courses are the equivalent of degrees, there is no standard for determining this. Hence "degree equivalents" have meaning only to an employer looking to hire, and only to the degree he wants to believe it. They have no meaning in academia, which is the point here. Vixen claims her "postgraduate" study resulted in the "equivalent" of two Master's degrees (in accounting).

Degrees come from degree-granting institutions. Those in turn are accredited. Accreditation, in response, is a function of the agreements between degree-granting institutions. This achieves uniformity and testability of a qualification. And this confidence is what drives the rest of the industry that depends upon degrees as reliable descriptors of achievement, knowledge, and skill.

In order to sit for the engineer's licensing exam, you must have a degree in engineering. Not an "equivalent." Not a degree in "engineering." The list of acceptable diplomas is clear and documented, and the accreditation requirements for the institutions granting a qualifying degree are also clear and documented. Since there is no commensurate rhyme or reason to the claimants of "equivalents" to those degrees, no purported equivalents are accepted.

Licensure aside, in the real world it doesn't matter. You either know your stuff or you don't. And if you know your stuff, you can demonstrate that you do. I often tell the story of the one time our head of mechanical engineering in my company didn't have a BSME degree. But his hobby was building race cars from scratch (including fabricating the engines and drive trains) and racing them. He remains to this day one of the most qualified engineers I know, and I work occasionally in the space program. His visible success is a profound adjudication of his skill.

However, if the claim is that one has academically acquired expertise, then the particulars of the claim must be evaluated in an academic framework. You don't get credit for "equivalents." You either have the degree or you don't—regardless of how much you know or how you learned it. You are either in a program or you are not; and I sadly had to gently break the news to a couple of PhD candidates that no, they were no longer in our program and could no longer call themselves "post-graduates" in it.

And no, if you wrote a term paper in your psychology class as an undergraduate, under no valid academic circumstances do you get to call yourself a "psychology post-grad" if you are not studying psychology in a degree-granting institution after earning your bachelor's degree in whatever. That's just misleading wordplay.
 
no JayUtah does not think that. This is merely another example of your claimed education, that did not make you smart, or able to understand facts, or even to maintain a sound mind, failing you.

Are we back to ableist language again? I have close relatives who did suffer from illnesses such as Parkinson's, Alzheimer's and one a Brain Tumour and they are no lesser a person than you.
 
The official equivalent of a masters degree is a masters degree. Continuing vocational education after graduation is not post graduate work, and does not confer anything like the equivalent of a masters degree. At best it makes you a better journeyman in your chosen trade.

I am quoting the official situation. Not asking whether you like it.
 
Similarly, claims to have studied business and industry up, down, around, and through don't seem to have equated to being able to discuss the Official Secrets Act at any level other than hand-waving and question-begging—vague allusions to "terror attacks," and so forth.

The claim is, "The Official Secrets Act would require firefighters to keep mum about the cause of the fire." Naturally this claim presumes understanding of firefighter policy and of the Act. Consequently, the question is then, "How do you know that?" We want to know whether an appropriate foundation exists for the claim. Paring away the obvious handwaving and fertile imagination, the actionable answer is, "I have studied business extensively."

That's plausible on its face. But we don't stop there. A facially plausible assertion is just our license to test actual proficiency. If the answer were along the lines, "Gee, I just know..." then we could reject the claim at that stage as mere assumption without further effort.

From that basis of knowledge, then, it should be possible for the claimant to demonstrate a facility with the Act that rises above mere magical argumentation—that is, merely mentioning the Act and the claim in the same sentence and shouting, "Abracadabra! Proved!" This is where Vixen has failed. She didn't know formal notification was no longer a thing. And when asked to find the parts of the Act that describe what she claims it forbids and how, she can't do it. The argument then as whole fails because its foundational premise failed.

It's a long-winded way of saying that people ought to know what they're talking about if they want to be taken seriously.

Stop twisting my words. In future please quote me accurately and in context.
 
Correct, I say from the perspective of having earned a living both in academia and in the professional world.

While certificate-granting institutions like to say their courses are the equivalent of degrees, there is no standard for determining this. Hence "degree equivalents" have meaning only to an employer looking to hire, and only to the degree he wants to believe it. They have no meaning in academia, which is the point here. Vixen claims her "postgraduate" study resulted in the "equivalent" of two Master's degrees (in accounting).

Degrees come from degree-granting institutions. Those in turn are accredited. Accreditation, in response, is a function of the agreements between degree-granting institutions. This achieves uniformity and testability of a qualification. And this confidence is what drives the rest of the industry that depends upon degrees as reliable descriptors of achievement, knowledge, and skill.

In order to sit for the engineer's licensing exam, you must have a degree in engineering. Not an "equivalent." Not a degree in "engineering." The list of acceptable diplomas is clear and documented, and the accreditation requirements for the institutions granting a qualifying degree are also clear and documented. Since there is no commensurate rhyme or reason to the claimants of "equivalents" to those degrees, no purported equivalents are accepted.

Licensure aside, in the real world it doesn't matter. You either know your stuff or you don't. And if you know your stuff, you can demonstrate that you do. I often tell the story of the one time our head of mechanical engineering in my company didn't have a BSME degree. But his hobby was building race cars from scratch (including fabricating the engines and drive trains) and racing them. He remains to this day one of the most qualified engineers I know, and I work occasionally in the space program. His visible success is a profound adjudication of his skill.

However, if the claim is that one has academically acquired expertise, then the particulars of the claim must be evaluated in an academic framework. You don't get credit for "equivalents." You either have the degree or you don't—regardless of how much you know or how you learned it. You are either in a program or you are not; and I sadly had to gently break the news to a couple of PhD candidates that no, they were no longer in our program and could no longer call themselves "post-graduates" in it.

And no, if you wrote a term paper in your psychology class as an undergraduate, under no valid academic circumstances do you get to call yourself a "psychology post-grad" if you are not studying psychology in a degree-granting institution after earning your bachelor's degree in whatever. That's just misleading wordplay.

Actually, my professional qualifications are considered superior to a masters, according to the webpages. Sorry if that upsets you. Simply stating a fact.

But I agree comparing an academic to a chartered professional is a false equivalent because one takes just one or two years to achieve whilst the other needs three years hands-on vocational work experience plus up to fifteen tough exams to pass including case studies.

As someone pointed out, this has zero to do with the topic at hand, except you seem to think it does.
 
Are we back to ableist language again? I have close relatives who did suffer from illnesses such as Parkinson's, Alzheimer's and one a Brain Tumour and they are no lesser a person than you.

Bizarre comment completely unrelated to anything in my post you quoted. Your relatives and their medical issues have no relevance to this thread. Your claimed education not helping you carry on a rational conversation on the other hand, does.
 
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