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Does 'rape culture' accurately describe (many) societies?

The Great Zaganza said:
my point, which you keep ignoring, is that she has no ability to make what she demands happen, politician or not.

She would do better finding ways to inform kids about porn in a non-scary way, and not add to the sense of the forbidden fruit around the topic.
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Of course she has no ability herself - nobody is suggesting otherwise.

The experts tell us that kids should not be watching this material. You seem to be unconcerned. Are you an expert?
 
Darat said:
Aren't you in danger of mixing different issues? What we allow children to see and do is in many areas of life very different to what an adult is allowed to see and do. (As it should be.)
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Possibly, but since de Souza asserts the following then it would appear to be appropriate:
"I have grown increasingly concerned about the normalisation of sexual violence in online pornography, and the role that this plays in shaping children’s understanding of sex and relationships."
 
lobosrul5 said:
And then I access the site thru Tor, or a VPN, which makes it look like I'm accessing PH via a country that does not implement such age restrictions OR the ability to access a banned website in the UK because they haven't implemented suitable age verification. The only way for the UK to prevent that work around will require draconian measures, ie banning VPN services from within the UK and keeping an ever growing blacklist of foreign IP addresses.

ETA: theres also the issue of the verification system itself. It would certainly be possible to create such a system that doesn't allow the government to track what content an individual is viewing. However, I don't think its possible for a user to verify that they aren't tracking you. Its all a one way hash they say... and how do I know that, I say.
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There are many things that are illegal in the UK that the UK hasn't implemented draconian preventative measures against. Can't see why this would be an exception. Most people in the UK are law abiding folk so if it becomes a legal requirement to use age verification to access a website most of us will do so. Of course there will be those that won't.
 
TragicMonkey said:
Because parents aren't parenting sufficiently, and hope to childproof the rest of the universe to make up for their own failure.

Don't want your kids seeing stuff? Monitor their internet usage. Don't give them unfettered access. Don't give them smartphones. Don't put computers in their rooms and ignore them. Pay attention. Raise them.
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How dare you suggest making parenting hard!
 
Poem said:
Possibly, but since de Souza asserts the following then it would appear to be appropriate:
"I have grown increasingly concerned about the normalisation of sexual violence in online pornography, and the role that this plays in shaping children’s understanding of sex and relationships."
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That doesn't really address my point.

Children can only (in the vast majority of cases) access the internet their parents allow them to. Societies and I'd say pretty much all cultures recognise that there is content that is fine for adults that is not fine for children.
 
Poem said:
Of course she has no ability herself - nobody is suggesting otherwise.

The experts tell us that kids should not be watching this material. You seem to be unconcerned. Are you an expert?
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I'm not unconcerned, but I am realistic - I was young once, too, and so were you; so was de Souza.

I know from my experience what helps with the firehose of pornographic or - worse - extremely violent images and videos that come from various media sources.
And bans that no one can enforce have never worked.

But giving people the tools to handle the material and put it in its correct place (i.e. fictional, unrealistic, clickbait, cheap shock value) can work to let people get on with their lives without being mentally overburdened by it.

So much of Rape Culture is based on the extremely silly idea that sex is somehow a competitive game, both between partners and between peers.

Educators would be well advised to teach kids that there is no scoreboard and no medals for having more or less sex than anyone else.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
I'm not unconcerned, but I am realistic - I was young once, too, and so were you; so was de Souza.

I know from my experience what helps with the firehose of pornographic or - worse - extremely violent images and videos that come from various media sources.
And bans that no one can enforce have never worked.

But giving people the tools to handle the material and put it in its correct place (i.e. fictional, unrealistic, clickbait, cheap shock value) can work to let people get on with their lives without being mentally overburdened by it.

So much of Rape Culture is based on the extremely silly idea that sex is somehow a competitive game, both between partners and between peers.

Educators would be well advised to teach kids that there is no scoreboard and no medals for having more or less sex than anyone else.
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Just so that I am clear what you are saying - you have no issue with 8 year olds watching whatever Pornhub offers?
 
Poem said:
Just so that I am clear what you are saying - you have no issue with 8 year olds watching whatever Pornhub offers?
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Just so we are clear: why do you refuse to read my posts?
Could it be that they don't quite fit the mental image you have made of me?

8year olds in the US have usually seen multiple explicit acts of violence in the media or real life, which I would consider more harmful than non-violent scenes of sex.
This doesn't mean I like it or won't take steps to make it harder for kids in my care to be exposed to such images.

But I know my limits and that I will not always be there when an Internet connection is.
So my primary job is not to find ways to block porn and violence, but provide the time, space and community to process what kids might get exposed to.

BTW, you are way behind the curve if you think Pornhub is the problem: anyone who gets that far is already mentally prepared.
The REAL problem is private messages containing explicit material, violent or sexual, coming from other kids and therefore catching someone completely unprepared.

Because this kind of stuff can come from trusted sources it is more important to prepare for the inevitable exposure than the futile effort to shield someone until they are "mature" enough.
That's a stupid idea, as if you suddenly can handle alcohol at 21 after having been an enforced teetotaller until then.
 
Poem said:
It's only impossible if there is no will to do so - which clearly there isn't.

Please allow me to restate the gravity of this issue from various experts. (BTW, Children's Commissioner Rachel de Souza is not a politician but an educationalist and former head teacher)

Rachel de Souza:
"I have grown increasingly concerned about the normalisation of sexual violence in online pornography, and the role that this plays in shaping children’s understanding of sex and relationships."

The Telegraph (May 2023):
Teenagers must be blocked from watching porn under Online Safety Bill, says Children’s Commissioner:

"Teenage children should be barred from accessing or watching pornography online under new laws, the Children’s Commissioner has said after new research showed the damage it causes them.

Dame Rachel de Souza said her new study, published on Tuesday, showed children’s access to porn on social media and other platforms was leading them to replicate the sexual violence they saw online in attacks on other youngsters."

The Guardian (April 2022):
Age checks needed urgently to protect children from online porn, say charities

"An “immediate and urgent” introduction of age verification is needed to stop children accessing extreme content on pornography websites, children’s charities have warned.

In a strongly worded open letter to the largest pornography sites in the UK, a coalition of charities and child safety experts led by Barnardo’s said the harm being done to children was so severe that the issue could not wait to be addressed as part of the online safety bill, which has yet to come into effect."

The Guardian (Sept 2023):
Pornography driving UK teens towards child abuse material, say experts

"Child abuse experts and police are warning that access to increasingly extreme pornography is driving a rise in harmful sexual behaviour among young people, from sexting to watching online child abuse.

One of the most alarming developments for the charity and for police has been the rise in minors watching or sharing illegal child abuse material."

UNICEF:

"Pornographic content can harm children. Exposure to pornography at a young age may lead to poor mental health, sexism and objectification, sexual violence, and other negative outcomes. Among other risks, when children view pornography that portrays abusive and misogynistic acts, they may come to view such behaviour as normal and acceptable."
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Are these the same child safety experts who previously warned us about the dangers of comic books, rock music, video games, boys having long hair, and satanic ritual sex abuse in day care centers?

Or are they new and different child safety experts?
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Just so we are clear: why do you refuse to read my posts?
Could it be that they don't quite fit the mental image you have made of me?

8year olds in the US have usually seen multiple explicit acts of violence in the media or real life, which I would consider more harmful than non-violent scenes of sex.
This doesn't mean I like it or won't take steps to make it harder for kids in my care to be exposed to such images.

But I know my limits and that I will not always be there when an Internet connection is.
So my primary job is not to find ways to block porn and violence, but provide the time, space and community to process what kids might get exposed to.

BTW, you are way behind the curve if you think Pornhub is the problem: anyone who gets that far is already mentally prepared.
The REAL problem is private messages containing explicit material, violent or sexual, coming from other kids and therefore catching someone completely unprepared.

Because this kind of stuff can come from trusted sources it is more important to prepare for the inevitable exposure than the futile effort to shield someone until they are "mature" enough.
That's a stupid idea, as if you suddenly can handle alcohol at 21 after having been an enforced teetotaller until then.
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I was asking for clarity so as not to pre-judge. And I am reading your posts.

I am fully aware that most children see porn on twitter el al and as you say through private messages.

You are a child psychologist? (No need too answer if you don't want to).

It's not a stupid idea to try to prevent young people from seeing what the experts unambiguously tell us they are being damaged by. You are implying that they are all hopelessly out of touch. Where is the evidence?
 
Myriad said:
Are these the same child safety experts who previously warned us about the dangers of comic books, rock music, video games, boys having long hair, and satanic ritual sex abuse in day care centers?

Or are they new and different child safety experts?
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Unicef, UK police, Charities and the UK Children's Commission. Your evidence that they are wrong is what?
 
Darat said:
That doesn't really address my point.

Children can only (in the vast majority of cases) access the internet their parents allow them to. Societies and I'd say pretty much all cultures recognise that there is content that is fine for adults that is not fine for children.
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That may be true - but I'm not following your logic.
 
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TragicMonkey said:
Because parents aren't parenting sufficiently, and hope to childproof the rest of the universe to make up for their own failure.

Don't want your kids seeing stuff? Monitor their internet usage. Don't give them unfettered access. Don't give them smartphones. Don't put computers in their rooms and ignore them. Pay attention. Raise them.
Click to expand...


Well said.
 
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