Why I should vote for Trump?

Emily's Cat said:
I thought that 1984 was a cautionary tale, not a handbook. Two minutes of hate isn't a good thing, and making a thread for the whole purpose of getting that hate-on is something I think reasonable and civil people shouldn't support.
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You're welcome to ignore the thread. Its called Freedom.
 
steenkh said:
For me the point of this thread is to get acquainted with how Trump supporters argue, instead of reading how Trump opponents think Trump supporters argue.
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Okay, I guess. I'm just not sure what a sample size of 1 is really going to tell you. A different venue would probably be more useful for that objective.
 
acbytesla said:
Why exactly do you think it would be better if the US exported its oil? Maybe it is better for Americans that we didn't.

I would argue if we are really interested in helping America, we would save these resources for ourselves. That it would be better if we diversify our energy portfolio so we are less dependent on a single energy source.

People complain about high gas prices. Me too. But as long as the oil companies lack competition, they will milk our tits for every dollar they can.
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They HAVE competition. The US has quite a bit of oil in our own land, as well as a lot of US-sourced oil in our reserves. There's no good reason for us to be subjected to predatory pricing from foreign interests - that's solely the result of government policy that does not serve the interests of the citizenry.
 
Emily's Cat said:
They HAVE competition. The US has quite a bit of oil in our own land, as well as a lot of US-sourced oil in our reserves. There's no good reason for us to be subjected to predatory pricing from foreign interests - that's solely the result of government policy that does not serve the interests of the citizenry.
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No they don't. Not really. The oil companies manufacture shortages all the time. By that I mean they aren't really shortages. But are faux shortages that the use to increase gas prices.

You think buying a small amount of oil abroad makes us more vulnerable to predatory pricing? There are huge oil reserves in Mexico, Columbia, Venezuela and now Jamaica.

There are in fact some very good reasons to buy oil abroad. Oil wells run dry. If we can purchase cheaper abroad we can save that oil when other sources becomes unavailable.

These are not simple issues that you can look at a single chart and think you understand all the complexities of the energy market.

I strongly believe we should focus on expanding and diversifying our energy sources. A lot more solar, a lot more wind, more nuclear and more geothermal.
 
Emily's Cat said:
They HAVE competition. The US has quite a bit of oil in our own land, as well as a lot of US-sourced oil in our reserves. There's no good reason for us to be subjected to predatory pricing from foreign interests - that's solely the result of government policy that does not serve the interests of the citizenry.
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acbytesla said:
No they don't. Not really. The oil companies manufacture shortages all the time. By that I mean they aren't really shortages. But are faux shortages that the use to increase gas prices.

You think buying a small amount of oil abroad makes us more vulnerable to predatory pricing? There are huge oil reserves in Mexico, Columbia, Venezuela and now Jamaica.

There are in fact some very good reasons to buy oil abroad. Oil wells run dry. If we can purchase cheaper abroad we can save that oil when other sources becomes unavailable.

These are not simple issues that you can look at a single chart and think you understand all the complexities of the energy market.

I strongly believe we should focus on expanding and diversifying our energy sources. A lot more solar, a lot more wind, more nuclear and more geothermal.
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Its a vastly complicated system. Oil refineries take many years and capital to build and they are setup in such a way that can make it difficult to switch both their inputs (type of crude) and output (diesel, asphalt, jet fuel etc).

Why do we still import crude if we are a net exporter?

https://www.api.org/news-policy-and...rude oil because,into fuel and other products.
 
lobosrul5 said:
Its a vastly complicated system. Oil refineries take many years and capital to build and they are setup in such a way that can make it difficult to switch both their inputs (type of crude) and output (diesel, asphalt, jet fuel etc).

Why do we still import crude if we are a net exporter?

https://www.api.org/news-policy-and...rude oil because,into fuel and other products.
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It should be noted that the author Dean Foreman is a lobbyist/economist for the Texas Gas and Oil association. He and they have a vested interest in keeping oil and gas prices as lucrative as possible.

I accept their opinions/explanations with a major dose of salt.
 
acbytesla said:
It should be noted that the author Dean Foreman is a lobbyist/economist for the Texas Gas and Oil association. He and they have a vested interest in keeping oil and gas prices as lucrative as possible.

I accept their opinions/explanations with a major dose of salt.
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Want a less partisan source... OK how about U of Chicago?

https://epic.uchicago.edu/news/why-...eign-oil-when-we-have-a-lot-of-it-in-the-u-s/

I'm not exactly sure what the point you are arguing even is. Are you saying a refinery would take in more crude and output more gasoline to fill demand except for OPEC cuts their output... and they WOULD take US Light Sweet Crude but they'd rather sit idle?!

OTOH the right wing talking points that IF only the EPA would let us drill baby drill all the the major oil companies would invest 10's of billion on new refineries to switch off middle eastern oil, and that would magically make gasoline 50c a Gl is just so full of **** its hilarious. And the funny thing is most of the talking heads saying that know it (along with all the other bs they spout).
 
lobosrul5 said:
Want a less partisan source... OK how about U of Chicago?

https://epic.uchicago.edu/news/why-...eign-oil-when-we-have-a-lot-of-it-in-the-u-s/

I'm not exactly sure what the point you are arguing even is. Are you saying a refinery would take in more crude and output more gasoline to fill demand except for OPEC cuts their output... and they WOULD take US Light Sweet Crude but they'd rather sit idle?!

OTOH the right wing talking points that IF only the EPA would let us drill baby drill all the the major oil companies would invest 10's of billion on new refineries to switch off middle eastern oil, and that would magically make gasoline 50c a Gl is just so full of **** its hilarious. And the funny thing is most of the talking heads saying that know it (along with all the other bs they spout).
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Thanks for the additional source.

Have you seen the number of refineries that have been shuttered? The oil companies constantly lie and manipulate the oil markets. I wasn't saying that some of Dean's points don't have merit. Just that we shouldn't accept them without skepticism.
 
acbytesla said:
Thanks for the additional source.

Have you seen the number of refineries that have been shuttered? The oil companies constantly lie and manipulate the oil markets. I wasn't saying that some of Dean's points don't have merit. Just that we shouldn't accept them without skepticism.
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I know that several shuttered during the pandemic, but some have re-opened. That can be for all kinds of different reasons though. Could be an old inefficient plant for one.

The number of operable refineries in the United States decreased to 129 at the beginning of 2023, down from 130 refineries at the beginning of 2022. The single refinery closure reflects the loss of a small facility in Santa Maria, California, that had 9,500 b/cd of crude oil distillation capacity. Despite the loss of the Santa Maria plant, total U.S. capacity increased because PBF Energy reactivated a previously retired crude oil distillation unit at its refinery in Paulsboro, New Jersey. The unit’s crude oil capacity increased from 100,000 b/cd in 2022 to 160,000 b/cd in 2023.

The 2023 Refinery Capacity Report does not reflect changes in U.S. refining capacity after January 1, 2023. ExxonMobil announced the completion of a major refinery capacity addition in mid-March, boosting the facility’s total crude oil distillation capacity by 250,000 barrels per day (b/d) to 630,000 b/d, according to the announcement. This new estimated capacity is reflected in our monthly data as of our May Petroleum Supply Monthly, and we will include an exact measure in calendar-day capacity and stream-day capacity in next year’s Refinery Capacity Report.

per official source: https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/d...rude oil distillation,a 1% increase from 2022.

I'm 100% not saying oil co's are saints or anything, but theres so much competition that no one but the OPEC cartel can really manipulate crude prices. And the capital expenditure, shutdown/startup costs, and lead times for refineries is such that it would be very difficult to manipulate prices that way.

Another thing many people don't know is any release from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve MUST be sold to the highest bidder... which is why we were exporting crude to China in 2022.

https://www.energy.gov/ceser/articles/fact-sheet-strategic-petroleum-reserve
 
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lobosrul5 said:
I know that several shuttered during the pandemic, but some have re-opened. That can be for all kinds of different reasons though. Could be an old inefficient plant for one.

The number of operable refineries in the United States decreased to 129 at the beginning of 2023, down from 130 refineries at the beginning of 2022. The single refinery closure reflects the loss of a small facility in Santa Maria, California, that had 9,500 b/cd of crude oil distillation capacity. Despite the loss of the Santa Maria plant, total U.S. capacity increased because PBF Energy reactivated a previously retired crude oil distillation unit at its refinery in Paulsboro, New Jersey. The unit’s crude oil capacity increased from 100,000 b/cd in 2022 to 160,000 b/cd in 2023.

The 2023 Refinery Capacity Report does not reflect changes in U.S. refining capacity after January 1, 2023. ExxonMobil announced the completion of a major refinery capacity addition in mid-March, boosting the facility’s total crude oil distillation capacity by 250,000 barrels per day (b/d) to 630,000 b/d, according to the announcement. This new estimated capacity is reflected in our monthly data as of our May Petroleum Supply Monthly, and we will include an exact measure in calendar-day capacity and stream-day capacity in next year’s Refinery Capacity Report.

per official source: https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/d...rude oil distillation,a 1% increase from 2022.

I'm 100% not saying oil co's are saints or anything, but theres so much competition that no one but the OPEC cartel can really manipulate crude prices. And the capital expenditure, shutdown/startup costs, and lead times for refineries is such that it would be very difficult to manipulate prices that way.

Another thing many people don't know is any release from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve MUST be sold to the highest bidder... which is why we were exporting crude to China in 2022.

https://www.energy.gov/ceser/articles/fact-sheet-strategic-petroleum-reserve
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The number of refineries has been significantly decreased over the last 30 years. Even during periods when oil companies were complaining about shortages in refining capacity.
There is little doubt that markets have been manipulated for the purpose of excessive profits.
 
acbytesla said:
The number of refineries has been significantly decreased over the last 30 years. Even during periods when oil companies were complaining about shortages in refining capacity.
There is little doubt that markets have been manipulated for the purpose of excessive profits.
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If by manipulation, you mean they only build when it increases profit then... Yes
 
lobosrul5 said:
If by manipulation, you mean they only build when it increases profit then... Yes
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I mean they shutter refineries to monopolize markets and reduce competition.

Capitalism and free markets are a wonderful thing. That is when there is true competitive markets. Companies throughout history attempt in various ways to reduce those competitive forces. They buy out competition. Create vertical and horizontal monopolies.
They make backroom agreements with competitors not to compete and divvy up markets.

There are laws against many of these actions, ie: Sherman Antitrust Act, but often those laws are ignored and not enforced. Especially with the energy markets. Lest we forget Enron's manipulation of the electricity markets. There is significant evidence that oil refining capacities were reduced specifically for this purpose.
 
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Stacyhs said:
Feel free to review this FACT CHECKING of many claims put out by the Trump WH and Trump himself (known for their unfailing and strict adherence to the TRUTH :rolleyes:).

Fact-checking Donald Trump on his economy and Joe Biden’s



Your WH link list restricts everything to "Before the China Virus invaded our shores, we built the world’s most prosperous economy."

What he fails to ever mention is that he INHERITED a booming economy recovering from the 2008 crash from the Obama administration and rode its coattails:



If Trump cherry-picked anymore, he'd have to hire farm laborers.
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You know, I asked simply which one of the facts posted here is inaccurate:
https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/trump-administration-accomplishments/

You went to a Politico fact check on Trump's campaign speeches. There's an issue with that approach. It does not address the topic of my inquiry. Are the claims listed on the Whitehouse website true or false?

I fully realize all politicians lie, especially on the campaign trail, (yours too) but what's listed on the Whitehouse website is either factual or not. So which is it?
 
Stacyhs said:
ChrisBFRPKY said:
On a related note I recently read an article about some new archaeological finds of Viking era artifacts revealed from melting Glaciers in Norway. That means the Glaciers are now back to the same place they were around 1,500 years ago where the Vikings left their stuff. It was an interesting read, very thought provoking."

Nope. You're referring to the Lendbreen ice patch which isn't a glacier:


People didn't live there; it was a snowy mountain pass and not a glacier.
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I should have known better than to trust anything from CNN.

"Melting glaciers reveal lost mountain pass and artifacts used by Vikings"

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/15/world/viking-mountain-pass-norway-scn/index.html
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ChrisBFRPKY said:
I should have known better than to trust anything from CNN.

"Melting glaciers reveal lost mountain pass and artifacts used by Vikings"

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/15/world/viking-mountain-pass-norway-scn/index.html
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This is just pathetic. YOU inferred "That means the Glaciers are now back to the same place they were around 1,500 years ago where the Vikings left their stuff," which none of the article, including CNN, ever said.You're attempting to blame CNN when multiple media reported exactly what CNN did:

BBC: Melting glaciers reveal Viking pass hidden for centuries

Miami Herald: Prehistoric Viking weapons revealed as glaciers melt in Norway during heat wave

And even FOX NEWS: As climate change melts Norway's glaciers, pockets of history hidden for centuries or millennia are finally seeing the light of day.
 
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TellyKNeasuss said:
Getting back to the original thesis of this thread, here is the definitive answer:

https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/111703421569603715

(I strongly recommend not having any food or drink in your mouth when you start watching this.)
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Ziggurat said:
The best case for Trump is probably what he DIDN'T do.

He didn't get us, or anyone else, into war. He didn't give billions of dollars to Iran. He didn't drive up inflation. And he didn't open our borders to uncontrolled illegal immigration.

His biggest failure was COVID. He should have fired Fauci on day 1, but that's hindsight. The lockdowns were a mistake, and one we will be paying for for decades. But the Democrats weren't any better, so....
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...S&cvid=aa6dd4ce3e444bd2a3f7673d5e1e8e03&ei=49

But the only people saying those things are Trump supporters and as a group, their kind can't be trusted.

Even if the above were true (funny), none of it would justify his treason or make a vote for him less of a betrayal of our nation. If a presidential candidate can't commit to not overthrowing the government, there's really nothing less to be said.
 
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